Wild Animal / Rulez Boyz Woes - Please Help!

[John Q. Malal]

Hi All,

We've just started a new BB league, and the minotaur I bought for my Chaos Dwarf team just cost me a game (with a little help from the GW rulez boyz at 1-800-394-4263.) The fact that I bought a minotaur shows that this is only the second game I've played

I've just read the 6 page Wild Animal thread, and I don't see what I'm looking for directly referenced. Forgive me if it was.

We had several rules questions about Wild Animal (WA). The league commisoner (the local store owner) called the Rulez Boyz, and we got the following answers. I suspect that at least one is incorrect, but I need proof in writing. Can anyone help with a reference in the Handbook or LRB to the following.

1) If a WA stands up, does he have to blitz if there is an opponent in his tackle zone? The rulez boyz said yes. If this is true, do I have to stand? I say no, the rulez boyz said yes.

Again, I need something in writing to show the league commisioner. A reference from the rulesbook would be great.

I'm *not* trying to get the result overturned (done is done), but I'm benching the minotaur for the rest of the season if he's as bad as I think he is.

Thanks!

John Q. Malal

[franck_le_grand]

Hi John, welcome to the board!

No you don't have to stand up with your minotaur (or we don't in my league).

But anyway WA is bad. really bad!
I run a skaven team for the time being, and I didn't even consider to start with a rat ogre because of the WA trait.

Try to look at the poll:
http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1672
And use one of these suggestions instead. They are not that bad!

Le Grand

[Milo]

Hi All,

1) If a WA stands up, does he have to blitz if there is an opponent in his tackle zone? The rulez boyz said yes. If this is true, do I have to stand? I say no, the rulez boyz said yes.

Again, I need something in writing to show the league commisioner. A reference from the rulesbook would be great.

Wild Animal
The player has a nasty tendency to get a bit carried away during a match. Wild Animals must take their actions first of all during a turn (they must be activated). If you take an action with another player before moving all Wild Animals, then your opponent can call you for illegal procedure exactly as if you had forgotten to move the Turn marker. In addition, if a standing Wild Animal is adjacent to a standing player from the opposing team then they must take either a Block or Blitz action, and throw a block at an adjacent player. Last but not least, Wild Animals can never receive assists when they Block or Foul; they are simply too out of control for other players to help them out.

Note the word in italics. A Wild Animal whom is not standing is NOT required to take a Block or Blitz action, which means he can stand up and dodge away OR simply remain on the turf.

Hope that helps. Wild Animals really aren't THAT bad.

[franck_le_grand]

Wild Animals really aren't THAT bad.

I'd say that's a point of veiw

But I haven't had that much experience with WA, but the little I have is enough for me. I don't like the trait and I (plus a great number of people besides me) think that it should be changed.

Maybe I should buy a rat ogre to see if you are right, Milo?

[Milo]

Rat Ogres are a classic example of High-Risk/High-Reward. Yes, Wild Animal can cause you to lose turns or put your Rat Ogre in an unfortunate position, but in return you get the fastest, most agile ST5 player in the game, who not only can get mutations but also starts with a useful one in the first place! A couple skills (Pro, Block, Leader) can go a long way to reducing the risk inherent in Wild Animal, anyways.

Worst case scenario: Your opponent manages to surround the Rat Ogre, forcing you into a disadvantaged block and he falls down. The following turn, you can simply not stand him up. In order for your opponent to ensure he remains down, he's going to have to keep those players around your Rat Ogre (essentially taking them out of the drive, just as your rat ogre is) AND keep your players from cancelling out their assists. In other words, he paralyzes one of your players (admittedly one of your best) by sacrificing 3 of his (assuming ST3 on any of the players.)

I think one reason people are unhappy with Wild Animal is that in the past, Wild Animal has been easily the best of the negative skills. Compared to Take Root, which will keep your Treeman out of roughly 1 half of every 4 over his career, or Bonehead, which will cause your Ogre to sit stupidly on the pitch for roughly 2-3 turns a game, Wild Animal still really doesn't look that bad. When it granted you a free blitz and Frenzy, it was just stupid good. It's hard to take something away from a coach who's come to expect it already.

Milo

[Darkson]

Milo, I'm not contradicting you, but the way we had read the part of WA you highlighted was that if I wanted to stand up my RO adjacent to an oppo he would HAVE to blitz. Is it only if he's standing at the start of his turn? If so, Wa not (quite) as bad as I thought (though still not right IMO).

[franck_le_grand]

Yeah I see your point...
I guess you can use them tactical, by "keep up" players from the other team...

But I'd just like to one of the three removed:
1) must block/blitz adjacent player
2) can't get any assist
3) must move first

And I'd like number two to go, although it takes away the "wild" in wild animal...

[Milo]

How would it be negative, then? If you can get assists from your teammates, it makes it MUCH harder to get the Rat Ogre in a position where taking a block at the start of a turn is a bad thing.

What we did to lessen the severity of Wild Animal was remove the chance that you might block or blitz one of your own players.

Milo

[sean newboy]

By the way, Rules Boyz can not give definative answers. They are essentially fans like the rest of us, they give lots of bad advice, and dont always even have access to the q&a. They only tell u what they believe, they dont have access, or dont ever use it, to the game designers.

[Darkson]

Take rulesboyz answers with a pinch of salt.

We were having a "discussion" about some 40K rules in our club, and couldn't come to an agreement. 3 of us unknowingly rang the rulezboyz the next day, and we were all given different "correct" answers, so use as a guide, not a definative answer.

[Skummy]

Worst case scenario: Your opponent manages to surround the Rat Ogre, forcing you into a disadvantaged block and he falls down. The following turn, you can simply not stand him up.

Nah, the worst case scenario is a Skaven team that is down a few players, gets crowded on the line and has their RO forced into blocking at disadvantage. He goes down, and then the whole rest of your team gets clobbered becasue they couldn't make any blocks. WA's most crippling restriction is that he has to go first, and this makes him the only big guy who actively restricts/promotes bad play. I really wish Skaven had the option of trading him in for two extra Storm Vermin. I think most coaches would do this in a heartbeat.

[John Q. Malal]

Hi All,

Thanks for the quick response! I printed the thread out, and have got the league commissioner to accept that the WA doesn't have to stand at the start of the turn.

Nevertheless, I couldn't budge him on the issue of having to block or blitz if a prone minotaur stands. (I can't convice anybody else, either ).

The wording of the rule is kind of ambiguous, and from reading this thread I see that I'm not the only one that was confused.

Milo, I think I just read somewhere on this board that you're on one of the BB rules committees. If that's the case, could you petetion for adding the phrase "if a WA is standing at the start of the turn" instead of the current "if a standing WA" in the next printing of the rules?

Thanks!

Hi All,

1) If a WA stands up, does he have to blitz if there is an opponent in his tackle zone? The rulez boyz said yes. If this is true, do I have to stand? I say no, the rulez boyz said yes.

Again, I need something in writing to show the league commisioner. A reference from the rulesbook would be great.

Wild Animal
The player has a nasty tendency to get a bit carried away during a match. Wild Animals must take their actions first of all during a turn (they must be activated). If you take an action with another player before moving all Wild Animals, then your opponent can call you for illegal procedure exactly as if you had forgotten to move the Turn marker. In addition, if a standing Wild Animal is adjacent to a standing player from the opposing team then they must take either a Block or Blitz action, and throw a block at an adjacent player. Last but not least, Wild Animals can never receive assists when they Block or Foul; they are simply too out of control for other players to help them out.

Note the word in italics. A Wild Animal whom is not standing is NOT required to take a Block or Blitz action, which means he can stand up and dodge away OR simply remain on the turf.

Hope that helps. Wild Animals really aren't THAT bad.

[Al the Rat]

To chuck a pedant's point of view into the mix the LRB is pretty clear. "If standing a WA must block or blitz", is the phrase people seem to find contentious, in that it is being interpreted that if a WA stands up he must blitz. However this is forgetting the fact that a blitz must be declared before you start to take an action. A prone WA is not in a position where he must declare a blitz, he is also not in a position where he can block. Therefore, there is no reason within the rules to force a prone WA to use the team's blitz action.

As a minotaur user a word of advice - avoid mummies when playing Undead. I just lost a game because a turnover at a vital time when forced to make an even strength block.

[Snew]

John,

I'm pretty sure there is a Q&A on this very subject but I haven't been able to find it. The wording is not bad now. It was horribly worded in the BBMag where your league's interpretation would have been common. It used the term "standing up" and most people recognized that to mean getting up. The one thing we don't want is another rewording that makes it ambiguous again.

Standing in this sense is not the verb "to get up from prone" It's the verb "already up looking for someone to pound". Bummer about your league. Looks like you're going to need to learn to deal with it or get them to allow a do-over and trade him in on something that is less of a liability. WA is really bad, your league's interpretation, though, makes it 10X worse by forcing you to use your Blitz as your first action of the turn just to get up. Sorry.

[GalakStarscraper]

Hi All,

Thanks for the quick response! I printed the thread out, and have got the league commissioner to accept that the WA doesn't have to stand at the start of the turn.

Nevertheless, I couldn't budge him on the issue of having to block or blitz if a prone minotaur stands. (I can't convice anybody else, either ).

This has been answered numerous times by BBRC members (multiple of them). A WA who is not standing (ie physically standing NOT the action of standing up) can do anything he wants during his turn.

So if he was prone with an adjacent opponent, he can stand up and dodge away with say Break Tackle and go hit someone else if he wanted or go lend an assist .... etc. etc. etc.

This was has been answered so many times the paper is wearing through.

Galak