Talk Fantasy Football

Regash wrote:I also think it's A.
Never played any boardgame before where you'd have to count the square you're in as 1.

Throw ins work exactly that way.

Shushnik wrote:

Regash wrote:I also think it's A.
Never played any boardgame before where you'd have to count the square you're in as 1.

Throw ins work exactly that way.

Actually the "square" the ball is in is 0 which is off pitch.

GalakStarscraper wrote:

Shushnik wrote:

Regash wrote:I also think it's A.
Never played any boardgame before where you'd have to count the square you're in as 1.

Throw ins work exactly that way.

Actually the "square" the ball is in is 0 which is off pitch.

The 'starting point' is where the ball left the pitch, so says the rules. If it helps you to think of the crowd as space 0, fine. But that's not the way it's written.

Which I only know because I thought for a long time that the space where the ball left from was 'space 0' because to me that's what a 'starting point' is. It took someone pointing out the FAQ to clear up my incorrect stance in a dispute, and it still just kinda bothers me a little. Starting points aren't the first counted space goddamnit.

Shushnik wrote:If it helps you to think of the crowd as space 0, fine. But that's not the way it's written.

Acually, it IS written this way.

CRP, page 13 wrote:THROW-INS
When a ball scatters or bounces off the pitch it is immediately thrown back in by the eager spectators! Use the Throw-in template to work out where the ball goes, using the last square the ball crossed before going off as a starting point

Using the square the ball crossed, so it's not where the ball is, therefore we start counting right there.
The ball is off the pitch so, yes, off the pitch is square zero. That is why you use the first square to start your counting.

Regash wrote:

Shushnik wrote:If it helps you to think of the crowd as space 0, fine. But that's not the way it's written.

Acually, it IS written this way.

CRP, page 13 wrote:THROW-INS
When a ball scatters or bounces off the pitch it is immediately thrown back in by the eager spectators! Use the Throw-in template to work out where the ball goes, using the last square the ball crossed before going off as a starting point

Using the square the ball crossed, so it's not where the ball is, therefore we start counting right there.
The ball is off the pitch so, yes, off the pitch is square zero. That is why you use the first square to start your counting.

A starting point is where the 0 square is.

A player at his starting point doesn't count the space he occupies as space 1 in movement. A ball being thrown in does count it's starting point as space 1. It's an inconsistency that irks me.

Shushnik wrote:A starting point is where the 0 square is.

And that is why the last crossed square on the pitch is square 1: The starting point, square zero, is off the pitch!

Regash wrote:

Shushnik wrote:A starting point is where the 0 square is.

And that is why the last crossed square on the pitch is square 1: The starting point, square zero, is off the pitch!

Except it isn't. It's the last square the ball crossed before going off the pitch. The starting point is on the pitch, and also square 1 in counting the throw in.

I think we have two different starting points we're talking about.
You talk about the starting point of the movement, the square the ball is in.
I'm talking about the starting point for counting squares, the square we will count as one.

Since there are no real squares off the pitch, this might be misunderstood in the rules if you really want to misunderstand it.
To me logic says, the ball is no longer on the pitch but in the hands of the spectators, so the last square the ball was in before leaving the pitch is also the point of reentry to the pitch.
But the starting point is off the pitch, making this square 1 of the count.

Regash wrote:I think we have two different starting points we're talking about.
You talk about the starting point of the movement, the square the ball is in.
I'm talking about the starting point for counting squares, the square we will count as one.

Since there are no real squares off the pitch, this might be misunderstood in the rules if you really want to misunderstand it.
To me logic says, the ball is no longer on the pitch but in the hands of the spectators, so the last square the ball was in before leaving the pitch is also the point of reentry to the pitch.
But the starting point is off the pitch, making this square 1 of the count.

Again, if it helps you to think about it that way, fine.

But the rules declare one and only starting point, which is on the pitch and also movement square 1.

Since you insist on the way something was written...
Here is the full text about throw-ins in the rulebook:

CRP, page 13 wrote:THROW-INS
When a ball scatters or bounces off the pitch it is immediately thrown back in by the eager spectators! Use the Throw-in template to work out where the ball goes, using the last square the ball crossed before going off as a starting point (see page 3 for how the Throw-in template is used to throw-in the ball 2d6 squares). If the ball is thrown into a square occupied by a standing player, that player must attempt to catch the ball as described earlier. If the ball lands in an empty square or a square occupied by a Prone or Stunned player, then it will bounce. If a throw-in results in the ball going off the pitch again, it will be thrown in again, centred on the last square it was in before it left the pitch. Throw-ins cannot be intercepted.

And because of the part I marked in red, here is what page 3 has to say about the throw-in template:

CRP, page 3 wrote:Throw-in Template: In Blood Bowl the ball is thrown back onto the pitch by the enthusiastic crowd if it ever goes out of bounds. The Throw-in template is used to determine where the ball ends up when it is thrown back in. To use the Throw-in template, position the square marked with the ball over the last square the ball crossed before going off, with the centre arrow (the one marked 3-4) pointing towards the opposite sideline. Roll one D6. The result will show the direction the ball travels in. Then simply roll two D6 to see how many squares the ball will travel in that direction, counting from the square marked with the ball as the first square.

Again, the rules talk about the square the ball has crossed.
In order to cross a square, you have to enter and then leave it again. If the ball crossed the last square, it leaves the pitch.
It now is no longer on the pitch! It does not stop on the last square and rebounds!
You do not place the ball in the crossed square but the ball marking of the throw-in template!
The last square it crossed, it's an empty square, is considered the point of entry for the thrown back ball and therefore is considered the first square to count.
It is square 1 while off the pitch is square 0.
I really don't know how you could interpret this in any other way.

Regash wrote:The starting point, square zero, is off the pitch!

CRP p. 13 wrote:Use the Throw-in template to work out where the ball goes, using the last square the ball crossed before going off as a starting point

Underline added by me. The last square the ball crossed is square one and the rules actually call it the "starting point." Sure the ball crossed that square and was out of bounds, but the rules specifically define the "starting point."

Regash wrote:You do not place the ball in the crossed square but the ball marking of the throw-in template!

CRP p. 3 wrote:To use the Throw-in template, position the square marked with the ball over the last square the ball crossed before going off

The square marked by the ball of the throw-in template is the same as the last crossed square. How can you not place the ball in the crossed square but in the ball marking of the template?

We are just being pedantic, but I'll join in for the hell of it.

We have a ball here and a ball marking on the throw in template there.
The marking goes on the last crossed square, the ball goes off the pitch.
The movement of the ball starts to be counted on the square the marking is on.

I still fail to see your problem.
Or would you count movement from the square the player is in too?

As for the two quotes of yours I referenced. . .
In the second, I now understand what you were saying. I read it the same as:
You do not place the dirty clothes on the floor but the hamper.
You meant it as:
You do not use the floor for dirty clothes but the hamper.
I thought the part after the "but" referred to the part right before the conjunction, not the beginning of the sentence. Typically, conjunctions are used in relation to the closer part of the sentence. It is not always wrong to do otherwise, you just run the risk of being unclear.

From the first quote though, my problem is that you are just flat wrong and contradicting how the rules define things. You even quoted the relevant rule in posts before and after the erroneous statement.

Or would you count movement from the square the player is in too?

Continuing to be pedantic. . .
I would count movement from the square the player is in. I would count the square the player in as movement zero. As has been discussed in numerous threads, you can take a Move Action of zero movement. So yes, it is appropriate to count movement from the square the player is in, starting at zero.
Is that not what you do?

I see your location is Germany. If English is not your native language, I apologize for being so picky. In German, I'm happy if I can know what I order from a menu.

Two guys arguing about a rule that they both agree works the same way - seems the most pointless waste of time.

Darkson wrote:Two guys arguing about a rule that they both agree works the same way - seems the most pointless waste of time.

I'm just being argumentative today. My apologies. But since the day is not over . . .
Two guys arguing about a rule they agree works the same way is a waste of time, but it entertains me to partake. I would argue that it can't be "the most pointless waste of time." That title would have gone to a non-relevant comment in the same thread about two guys arguing over something they already agree on.
But alas, it can't even be applied there, since I'm making a non-relevant comment about the non-relevant comment.

I've got another 45 minutes to be argumentative. I promise to play nice with others tomorrow.
(I better go finish that other post I'm writing.)