Loophole? Wasting MA in order not to throw 2nd frenzy block.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:38 pm

I pressume it is completely legal for a player who has frenzy to waste movement by moving around without reason and then throw a block with his last MA in order not to throw a second (supposedly an diasadvantage) frenzy block. Remember if you have to GFI, you can opt not to throw the extra-block. Is this a loophole? Legit? as it seems to evade the notion of frenzy (=to block furiously without thinking) and just takes the advantage (=to block twice if its favourable for you).

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:51 pm

I posted a similar thread about this on the NAF site (which seems to be down right now - anyone know why?)

The general concensus was that it was a bit beardy, but perfectly leagal.

I'd like to see Frenzy changed to force a 2nd block even if you have to GFI.

Sneaky Rat · Post by **Sneaky Rat** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:53 pm

If you are willing to use your blitz with that player, then it is perfectly legit. Personaly i think it is a tactic that will only work in rare cases, but it is legal. Since you can only do it with one player per turn, i don't see it as a loophole so much as a tactic. If you consider it a loophole, you must concede that it is of very limited use. As Dennis Miller says "Thats just my opinion i could be wrong."

Sneaky Rat

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:00 pm

Sneaky Rat wrote:If you are willing to use your blitz with that player, then it is perfectly legit. Personaly i think it is a tactic that will only work in rare cases, but it is legal. Since you can only do it with one player per turn, i don't see it as a loophole so much as a tactic. If you consider it a loophole, you must concede that it is of very limited use. As Dennis Miller says "Thats just my opinion i could be wrong."

Sneaky Rat

I'm afraid that your arguments are valid only in theory.
1. It will work in any case where you do not have to dodge in order to block the oppononent (which you do only in emergency cases if your not an elf)
2. it's not about that you can only use it once or more in your turn but to be able to switch on/off frenzy where appropriate. You won't get the neccessety to use this kind of "beardy" tactic more than once a turn anyway

Your right that it's use it limited but if you see your opponents Troll slayer do it every turn to smack your big guy but not taking the risk of failure due to a second block it gets annoying.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:15 pm

narkotic wrote:Your right that it's use it limited but if you see your opponents Troll slayer do it every turn to smack your big guy but not taking the risk of failure due to a second block it gets annoying.

I'm getting ready to redo the BBRC Hot List ... I'll put considering forcing a GFI for the 2nd block if a GFI is available to the player (ie he hasn't already used his 2nd GFI for the block).

Note by me agreeing to add it to the list, I'm not saying I agree that it should be changed ... I don't really care either way on this topic ... I just agree that it has elements of beardyness (especially if the guy move the player back and forth between two squares before the blitz hit) that should be considered if its good for the game.

Galak

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:21 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:I'm getting ready to redo the BBRC Hot List ... I'll put considering forcing a GFI for the 2nd block if a GFI is available to the player (ie he hasn't already used his 2nd GFI for the block).

Thanks!

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:24 pm

BTW, what are the other things you consider on putting on that list?
I'm just curious...

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:35 pm

Galak: Yes, please provide a link to your revised list once you've gotten it finished. I have a feeling that my league would like to add a few questions onto the agenda.

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 4:58 pm

Why not just make the second block a free one, if this is a problem? In the rare cases that a player would actually benefit more than marginally from that extra movement, it could just be considered a change that makes Frenzy a little bit better.

Micke

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:43 pm

I don't think its worth changing. All the alternatives are just as bad as the current situtation and a few dropped points of sportsmanship or derision from players in the league should stop the practice.

Anthony_TBBF · Post by **Anthony_TBBF** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 6:26 pm

It's not a loophole, it's a cheesehole. Nothing a sound beating can't fix.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 7:01 pm

Of course, if a Longbeard really wants to get out of throwing that 2nd block, he can take Multiple Block...

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 8:32 pm

I don't see it as a loophole, i see it as a perfectly acceptable practice. Never done it before, but i sure as hell wouldn't hesitate.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 9:09 pm

Zombie wrote:I don't see it as a loophole, i see it as a perfectly acceptable practice. Never done it before, but i sure as hell wouldn't hesitate.

i actually have done it before...not too often but i have. i always call it my witch elf wind-up.

perfectly legal and legit tactic imo.

Sneaky Rat · Post by **Sneaky Rat** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 9:44 pm

Ok, i am sure i am going to get flamed for saying this as many here will disagree, but here it goes. The way to win in Bloodbowl is to minimize the weaknesses of your team.

That being said, the intent of frenzy is to force you to make multiple blocks and risk falling on your behind. At the same time, the intent of agility 2 is to make it hard to dodge. Does that mean that it is unethical to not try to dodge with an agility 2 player? The frenzy "loophole" does not break the game. It is of very limited use. Is it annoying? Sure it is, but you should be able to do things equaly as annoying to them in return. While he can tie up your big guy every turn, he also has to forfeit his blitz action each turn, so unless your big guy has the ball, you can just keep dodging into the open and no one can get the ball from you. In addition, troll slayers are slow, if it is a problem, keep your big guy away from him.

All i am saying is that there are ways around someone doing this. Force him to make a dodge roll to get to your big guy. It doesn't take much to break a player of beardyness like that. Once you know a counter to it, it is useless to him and he will stop. He is doing what he needs to to win, and if you don't like it, make him lose by exploiting his tactic. I assure you that he will stop doing it.

Sneaky Rat