Allied Player Question

Rathe · Post by **Rathe** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:43 pm

From what i noticed is most people are against the allied player system here but I do have a question about it. There are not many quality rules on them many places and I was wondering what are the negatives to having an allied player?

Not talking about a big guy, but hence, a Chaos Team recruiting a Skaven player.

Thanks.

Xtreme · Post by **Xtreme** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:45 pm

The negatives are that al of your beastmen get fur in their teeth, and you waste money on a rat.

Kamikaze Rudy · Post by **Kamikaze Rudy** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 7:02 pm

Each team has it's strength and weaknesses. That's what makes it fun about picking a team sometimes. When you start to pick up players and/or skill classes that were otherwise not available to you, it unbalances the game and the teams.

I once had a Skaven team with a Mummy, Troll, and Rat Ogre(before current Wild Animal) as my front wall. Tell me that's not a little overpowering. Of course, I was playing a against a Chaos team with a Dark Elf Blitzer, Gutter Runner, and 3 Big Guys.....

The game has been much better since the allies have been taken away.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 7:34 pm

With allies all teams will eventually look and play the same at the end. It becomes like everyone playing humans vs. humans (sort of).

Morticus · Post by **Morticus** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:21 pm

That depends on 'how' the ally rules function.

examples for ally rules:
- 1 Ally total.
- You cannot buy positional players.
- They recieve 2 Aging rolls when 'normal' players recieve 1.
- 1 Team Re-Roll is permanently removed.
- 1 Fan Factor is permanently removed.
- 1 of your 'normal' positions get decreased by 1, so now you can only have 1 Troll Slayer.
- You can only freeboot Allies, and perhaps then also positional allies.
etc etc

The possible House rules you can implement to weaken the power/balance-effects of Allies is numerous. So to say that the whole concept of Allies is way wrong and unbalance things too much, is to draw fast conclusions IMO.

...as the saying goes: "Fast, but wrong".

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:14 pm

So you have 5-6 special rulings to have one ally included? That's more rules than to build an netire one-race team.

LRB plays fine bc. it has a streamlined and easy rule-set (in contrast to 2nd ed. where you had tables for everything and extra rules for every detail).

To have so many limitations and extra-rulings in order to include allies just proves that they are not in line with the current ruleset and not supposed to exist as a game mechanic, don't they?

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 11:29 pm

i started to reply to this but i'm REAL sure i've written something about it recently on here. check previous threads about allies I'm sure there are some.

Xtreme · Post by **Xtreme** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 11:39 pm

Is there anyone left who thinks allies are a good idea???

I know there were quite a few people who thought it would be cool untill we actually got the rules in 4th then everyone saw how bad it made things. Every team was broken with the rules the way the way things were.

Post by **Dave** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 6:20 am

I think the Allied teams as per BB mag and Annual are the best attempt.

Post by **Thadrin** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 6:41 am

Those rules have been watered down to balance them to the point that they suck though. Dungeonbowl style rosters would be much better (broken record boy over here)

Democritus · Post by **Democritus** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 10:41 am

I think allies are a good idea, and should be used.

narkotic, I don't think you understand what morticus was saying. He didn't mean you should use all of the "5-6 special rulings", it is just a list from which you could shoose from, ie nothing final just ideas.

personally I think allies shouldn't be able to use re-rolls (just like big guys) AND you loose one ff (as stated in 2end) when you hire one. No physical ability may be picked by an allied player.
You should only be able to include up to 2 allies (must be from two different races), only linemen can be allies.

So only these players can be allies:
Amazon linewomen, Human linemen, Norse linemen, Orc, Skaven linemen, Wood Elf linemen, Chaos Beastman, Dwarf Longbeard, Goblin, Halfling, Skink

All other players are either positionplayers OR can't be picked by an other team (undead and dark elf for instance).
[/quote]

Democritus · Post by **Democritus** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 10:54 am

So a darkelf team that want to buy an allie, must pick a player from chaos since that is the only race they can ally with. Thefore they can only have one ally, and it must be a beastman.

Now, does this darkelf team get totaly over powered and unblanced with one beatman? Call me crazy but I don't think so.

Also the "all teams will eventually look and play the same at the end" is such a lame argument. It is a good example of not giving it a chance before you even have heard the idea.

But if my ally idea is too much, take it down to ONE allied player only, for all teams.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 11:40 am

Democritus wrote:Now, does this darkelf team get totaly over powered and unblanced with one beatman? Call me crazy but I don't think so.

Not much, but a DE Lineelf on a Chaos team does make a difference.

Allies are a bad idea - its about building the best team possible inspite of your inherent weaknesses, not compensating for them by adding new player types.

noodle · Post by **noodle** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 11:43 am

I don't like allies in general... You end up with the chaos team with a dark elf thrower and skaven gutter runner....

Having them in a league is OK, but you will soon find out that every team ends up kinda "samey".

We use "horde" rules, but that's something quite different and very random....

Definately not for tournaments

Democritus · Post by **Democritus** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 1:01 pm

well chaos would then never get an dark elf on its team, that is the point!