Team Re-Rolls Question #3

[Full_Block]

I wanted to post this question right with the others but for some reason TBB crashed and I couldn’t get back onto it. So anyway…

Going back to Question #2, the LRB (p15) says clearly that: “:A coach may use a team re-roll to re-roll a dice roll for an action carried out by a player in their own team during their own team turn.” The emphasis this time should be placed on the words: “for an action.”

On page 8 of the LRB, it describes what actions are. They are: Move, Block, Blitz or Pass. So you cannot use a Team Re-Roll for anything else. So… keep following the line of logic… you cannot use a TRR when dodging (the action is the movement (Move) and not the dodging), trying to pick up the ball (the action there will be either Move or Pass), or even trying to catch the ball (the action is again Move).

You can use a skill re-roll (for these examples Dodge, Sure Hands and Catch respectively), or even a Trophy Re-Roll I suppose, but not a Team Re-Roll.

Is this right?

[ScottyBoneman]

I wanted to post this question right with the others but for some reason TBB crashed and I couldn’t get back onto it. So anyway…

Going back to Question #2, the LRB (p15) says clearly that: “:A coach may use a team re-roll to re-roll a dice roll for an action carried out by a player in their own team during their own team turn.” The emphasis this time should be placed on the words: “for an action.”

On page 8 of the LRB, it describes what actions are. They are: Move, Block, Blitz or Pass. So you cannot use a Team Re-Roll for anything else. So… keep following the line of logic… you cannot use a TRR when dodging (the action is the movement (Move) and not the dodging), trying to pick up the ball (the action there will be either Move or Pass), or even trying to catch the ball (the action is again Move).

You can use a skill re-roll (for these examples Dodge, Sure Hands and Catch respectively), or even a Trophy Re-Roll I suppose, but not a Team Re-Roll.

Is this right?

Not really, no.

Generally speaking, watch for when BB rules uses the term 'action' as it is not 100% consistent. Over-emphasising this will just lead you down the wrong road.

You can use a TRR for a dodge, I would suppose this is a TRR "for an action" not 'to reroll an action'. Simialr logical arguments could be made for Pick-ups, etc.

[Full_Block]

[quote]Generally speaking, watch for when BB rules uses the term 'action' as it is not 100% consistent.[/quote]
Then we need consistency. But again, you've sidestepped the question (nothing personal Scotty, it just happens when I ask these awkward questions ). If the rules say that TRRs can only be used on actions, they cannot logically be used at any other time. Again, the rules contradict the way the game is played (generally).

Is it just me or is anyone else thinking the rules need a serious overhaul? And I'm not talking about the annual rules review, either...

[ScottyBoneman]

Generally speaking, watch for when BB rules uses the term 'action' as it is not 100% consistent.

Then we need consistency. But again, you've sidestepped the question (nothing personal Scotty, it just happens when I ask these awkward questions ). If the rules say that TRRs can only be used on actions, they cannot logically be used at any other time. Again, the rules contradict the way the game is played (generally).

Is it just me or is anyone else thinking the rules need a serious overhaul? And I'm not talking about the annual rules review, either...

As a document, it is pretty poor and has all the markings of a document that has evolved rather then been written. I don't think anyone would argue that. Have a look at the actual organisation of it as whole to prove more of that.

[Longshot]

Of course you can use a RR for dodging and picking up the ball and so on..

If there is a misunderstood with the rules, it is only cos you want it!

Everybody understood that part. I agree with some rules that need clarification but in your example we are not talking about the same Actions!
There are the actions: everything you can do...

And the ACtion you must declare: MOVe, BLITZ....

The TRR apply for the first categorie. so, for everything you could possibly try.

[Darkson]

If you move, and need to dodge, that is part of the Move action, and therefore you can use a re-roll on it.

As for the LRB/Handbook being badly worded, and in need of a tidy/re-write, I don't think there's many here would disagree with you, but we've been hoping on that for at least a yea, so don't hold you're breath.

[sangraal]

I think some of the err, confusion, might come from the fact that we have a
basic set of rules with additional rules tacked on later --- if the LRB was re-written to incorporate all the additional rules in the right sections, so to speak, then it would be easier to understand them as a whole.

I didnt find them that bad when I started, but I play DBA & DBM & have had
to decipher those rules for a number of years now(anyone who plays DBx will
know what I mean)

sangraal

[madhobbit]

The dodging is part of the move action and so can use a TRR.

I do agree some parts of the rules could use rewriting. The part about TRR is not one of them. You shouldn't try to read the LRB as if it's a lawbook. Try to read it with the spirit of the game in mind.

[DoubleSkulls]

The rulebook is quite frankly badly written. The distinction between "Basic" and "Advanced" rules just makes the sort of strict interpretation you are doing pointless.

You probably want to try to get your hands on the Oberwald.

Are you Toby in disguise?

[ScottyBoneman]

I think some of the err, confusion, might come from the fact that we have a
basic set of rules with additional rules tacked on later --- if the LRB was re-written to incorporate all the additional rules in the right sections, so to speak, then it would be easier to understand them as a whole.

I didnt find them that bad when I started, but I play DBA & DBM & have had
to decipher those rules for a number of years now(anyone who plays DBx will
know what I mean)

sangraal

Wildly off topic, but do you play those online or only Ftf?