Newbie Coach seeks advice playing Skaven and beating Lizzies

Xin · Post by **Xin** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:12 pm

Heya,

Newbie Coach here, kind of. Did play BB a couple of times two years ago (mostly playing Gobbos and having my ass handed to me.. but hey.. it was fun!) and I'll be expecting my BB mailorder any day now. I'll most likely be playing Skaven since they seem to match my playing style, and now I have a couple of questions for ya all.

Ive checked all previous posts on Skaven tactics and it seems to me there are a lot of different ways to develop your players. For example some people prefer their storm vermins to be "LoS blockers" with mostly Strength skills while others develop them into "blitzing moveabouts" putting pressure on the ball carrier. Now having played mostly gobbos Im not that good at seeing what roles position players can play - all my gobbos were the same (agility skills) and there werent much use in hoping for one to be developed, they all died eventually anyway...

Basically, what I would like to know is if there are any good combos out there and what skills you should have for your rats. If it helps Ill be playing mostly against my friends Lizardman team (any tips on how to beat them is appreciated, they seem strong).

Thanks.

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:34 pm

Take out the skinks at every opportunity, without them they cant score.

Also i guess your games are pretty high scoring, as his skinks wont want to stand with the ball for too long, and likewise your GR's are probably looking to score in two turns as well. So in between the 6 touchdowns a side each

Just keep blocking those skinks at every opportunity. of course he'll be doing the same with his saurus on your av7's so get in first.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 2:00 pm

What you'll probably need is several tacklers - both to put skinks down and reduce the effectiveness of Dodge/Stunty.

To deal with the Sarus - I'd recommend a Rat Ogre, once he's got block he can take them on reasonably well and punch the holes in his line you'll need for your GR's to score.

I'd recommended getting Guard for your Storm Vermin so that they can give those vital assists against the Sarus.

You may want to consider making a couple of GR's into defensive players - Block, Shadowing, Sidestep will be very annoying for both skinks - who can't get away easily, and Saurus - who have little chance putting you down on the block, and can't dodge away, even with Break Tackle.

Skaven have to fight harder than Wood Elves - you don't have the high ag across the board to dodge away from danger. Lizzies aren't such a bad team for you to face - you are faster, have better agility and they lack the serious numbers of Block, Tackle etc that will tear your team to shreds.

Kill the skinks, and the Sarus won't score.

If you are playing a more varied league and excellent pass defence is a pair of foul appearance/ pass block line rats.

Ian

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 2:07 pm

General Gameplay Tips

Play fast and loose, score quickly and often. On defence use players with strong defensive skills to force turnovers in the oppositions half. If you can't stop them consolidating their play early, fall back and try to frustrate their drive forward. Do not get your players stuck into a blocking war or you will lose.

Development Tips

Stick to a plan. Always have in the back of your mind (or on the back of your teamsheet) what you want to achieve with the team. Skaven have access to every skill list so you can easily find yourself with a mismatch of skills across your team which does you no good in the long run.

With mutations - decide early what you're going to do with them. I'm currently using a lot of passblock + foul appearance which has been fun to play with. You could go the claws/fangs route if you're feeling really bloody minded. Remember, you don't always have to get a mutation just because you rolled a double. Skills like guard always come in handy on a skaven team.

Linerats

Send a linerat down with your recievers on every drive. They need to develop skills and having them hanging around as a 3rd string reciever is a good way to get them.

For skills - I suggest Block and Tackle for standard skills. Uninspiring I know but they're not really the guys making the plays. Block and Tackle will add to their survivability and help force errors.

On doubles you can look at things like claw/fangs, foul appearance or guard. If you're going to use foul appearance, make sure every linerat that rolls a double gets it. 1 FA linerat is a nuisance, 4 are lethal. Combine it with passblock for the ultimate in pass denial.

Always worth getting a kicker and a dirty player as well.

Throwers

Treat them like human throwers. Build up one guy with Accurate, Strong Arm, Safe Throw and use him to set your options off the kickoff.

The other guy can make use of Block, Big Hand, Nerves of Steel. Get him stuck into the action and use him to move loose balls out to your Gutter Runners.

Storm Vermin

Under 3rd ed I would have sworn by Stand Firm for these guys. It's harder to get and a little less useful now but worth a look. Guard and Mighty Blow are handy for SVs. Tackle can be useful if you're troubled by dodgy teams and don't have many linerats with the skill. Strip Ball is also handy.

Gutter Runners

The stars of your team. Contrary to conventional wisdom I've found you don't need to build them up as 1 turn scorers with catch/leap etc. You need 3 GRs built for turning the ball over and 1 in training as a 1 turn scorer.

First double you roll for a gutter runner, give him very long legs, you can then give him sprint and you have your 1 turner. For the others, pick skills that help turn the ball over in your opponents turn.

Some good combos after 3 skill rolls:

Dodge, Block, Diving Tackle, Sidestep
Dodge, Block, Sidestep, Shadow
Dodge, Block, Passblock, Diving Tackle.

With some doubles:

Dodge, Block, Dauntless, Strip Ball

With 2 Doubles:

Dodge, Block, Dauntless, Horns

Stat increases change the selections around a bit. Leap and passblock are good on an AG5 runner. Strip Ball is good if they get +MA

Rat Ogres

Do not, under any circumstances, buy a Rat Ogre until your roster is full. Even then think twice. Any decent opponent will make you suffer for picking a rat ogre. Before I bought a Rat Ogre I had gone 4 seasons without losing more than 3-4 games. After I bought an RO in the current season I went on a 5 game losing streak.

If you must have a Rat Ogre, force feed them Touchdowns and Completions until you can get them a skill. Then buy them block. Do not pass go, do not collect £200, get them block.

Hope this helps

Marcus

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 2:12 pm

Since I play both teams...

I just wondered why I should score with my lizzies that fast against skaven.

If rats pin my Saurus, I like the matchup and AV7. If they dodge, fine, their rr will shurely go away fast (especially if you dodge away from the krox. Without block or tackle it will be hard to bring down a skink...

So I would go beating up rats instead scoring fast...

And to pin a skink is a risky affair for both...

As for the skaven, yep, go for the skinks, especially with your storm vermin (obvious). I don't like fouling that much, but for skaven it can be tactics!

Sputnik

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 11:48 pm

Let me give you an advice for all the games you will do:

Play on your difference.

if the team against you is slower, so run
if they are better to score than you, so hit and manage for a 2/1 with casualties...
and so on.

For this one, i woulf sacrifice some Linerats on his Saurus and Kroxigor and hit the skink. (If they have no skink, they can't score

)
Use pass and hand off as usual to score with your gunter runners.
In defence, let your gunter runners going on the skink ball carrier to blitz him and score on counter-attack.

hope it will give you some ideas.

Xin · Post by **Xin** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 12:36 am

Thanks for all the info, appreciate it!

It seems however that my friend is going dwarves instead of lizzies... dunno if thats a good or a bad thing.. oh well =).

Post by **Thadrin** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 5:37 pm

AS an experienced Dwarf coach I'd say that its not necessarily a bad thing - I'm actually playing (solo) a game of Rookie Skaven against my TRR 142 Dwarf team (8 games in) at the moment, because I'm painting up my Skaven figs at the moment, the second such game I've played. The first game the dwarfs won, but my god it was fun playing the last few turns because the sheer speed of a skaven team means you can generally get plenty of assists around opponents, and unlike Wood Elves you can get a few rerolls. Its a real pain in the back side defending against Gutter runners when you have an average movement of 5. The trick with Skaven against Dwarfs seems to be Swarming the ball, denying assists, and waiting to exploit any chinks in the defence. Time is a factor you really don't have to worry too much about because you can score in a flash. Playing a Counterattacking game seems to be the key.

Basically, Marcus' stuff makes a huge amount of sense (and seeing as hes apparently usually a Skaven player and I know how good he is) so read that and you can't go far wrong. That said, I'd prefer Pass Block-Catch-Block as a combo...INTERCEPTION MACHINE!

Just don't ask how the second Skaven-Dwarf game is going...

Xin · Post by **Xin** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 6:10 pm

Thadrin wrote: Basically, Marcus' stuff makes a huge amount of sense (and seeing as hes apparently usually a Skaven player and I know how good he is) so read that and you can't go far wrong. That said, I'd prefer Pass Block-Catch-Block as a combo...INTERCEPTION MACHINE!

Yeah, Marcus gave a lot of good info (thanks again). What do a GR with AG4 have to roll for a successful interception? And do dwarves pass a lot?

Thadrin wrote:Just don't ask how the second Skaven-Dwarf game is going...

Oh.. and how is the second game coming along?

Also, Thadrin, please respond to my other post in the General Forum on how to paint the Skaven figs.

Post by **Thadrin** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:13 pm

2-0 to the dwarfs at half time, with the Dwarfs having just pulled off a jammy "Slayer hands off to Blitzer who short passes to other blitzer who scores" play...I'll post the log if anyone is REALLY interested...

I'll go take a look at that other post now.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 8:27 pm

AG 4 players intercept on a 5+ With catch skill they have a very good chance to pick off the ball.

One thing to remember though is that passblock is not just useful for racking up interceptions. It can be used to swarm tacklezones onto the thrower (which is my preferred method - forces fumbles in the backfield where you can score immediately) or can be used simply to discourage your opponent from their optimum play - by forcing them to make a pass at worse odds, a pass to a second-choice reciever, or making them give up the pass altogether.

Remember Chet's rule as well: One of anything is a target. Get at least 2 passblockers.

Marcus