gr ag5

JJB · Post by **JJB** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:09 pm

Foul appearance is a very intelligent idea, both increase the survival of that player and reinforcing the pass-blocking idea by doubling the fronts - both in interception and making the opponent fail his pass/catch.

More generally, I think that it's one of those backlashes that skavens, especially gutter runners, suffer from. They have access to so many skills thanks to the mutation that any coach is at risk of finding himself tempted to give his player too many skills/traits to the extent of losing his focus.
Therefore, I would most of all recommend that you do try to visualize what job you want to give your gutter runner, taking into account the rest of your team, your style of play as well as the other teams in your league, and stick to it. Thus you will be able to give skills/traits/mutations that are consistent all along your gutter runner's development, of course taking into account the fact that he may or may not roll other doubles, and thus thinking of all the alternative routes...

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:37 pm

Dauntless is the way to go. With Leap high on the list, nobody within 10 squares is safe. He becomes a real monster if you roll doubles again and get Dauntles.

JJB · Post by **JJB** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:48 pm

Skummy wrote:He becomes a real monster if you roll doubles again and get Dauntles.

You mean horns, right?

The Florist · Post by **The Florist** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:58 am

Double dauntless?

Nedders · Post by **Nedders** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:14 pm

uhm, can you take stunty on a double? AG5 and stunty, teehee

Phipstar · Post by **Phipstar** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:03 am

tragicaly i can't, stunty is a racial characteristic.
but would really be cool

Nick-O · Post by **Nick-O** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:41 am

Big Hand? Foul Appearance?? That's crazy talk!!!

Good grief - with 5AG this GR is your scorer and VLL IS A NO-BRAINER!! Especially with your other GRs not developed yet. I'm just giving the others a hard time and I know they are just giving you other options because you asked for them, but I'm in shock because Skaven are my favorite team!

Let me confirm your original thought - A one-turn scorer is every Skaven coaches dream, and you have accomplished the hard part of that (the doubles) early, and what's more he also has a 5AG!?!? Turning him into anything other than a one-turner would be a High Crime Against Skavendom!!!

While 5AG is great *period*, it does mean this GR is now an offensive player and you should continue to develop him that way. Think of what this guy excels at - dodging, catching, and getting around other players! You do a lot more of that on the opponent's side of the field than on your own.

I do think all of the advice on Dauntless is very sound, but you give that to your SECOND doubles Skaven - if you are lucky enough to get one. It is a great skill to have for a defensive GR but is more reliant on your MA than on AG5/Dodge. A dauntless GR mostly stays in your backfield as a safety and doesn't have nearly as many opposing players to navigate through and around. I would designate your GR w/block as your Defensive GR and try to put Dauntless on him if you get the chance.

But since you asked, here is my crazy alternative

: I say ignore the doubles and give him Leap. Just because you rolled doubles doesn't mean a doubles choice is the best choice for him. Sometimes rolling doubles is almost a curse because it distracts you away from the best development route for a player. Other reasons:

1.) Leap is the 'ultimate' skill to put with an AG5,
2.) Leap/Strip Ball is the way to bust cages and an AG5 will really help you get into the cage,
3.) The opportunity cost - he will have limited skill choices and if you give him VLL or Dauntless now then that means he won't get one of the other great skills he doesn't have (Leap, Block, NoS, Pass Block, Strip Ball, Side Step)
4.) Along those lines - as the first poster said, VLL is almost a waste on an AG5 player because it doesn't directly capitalize on the AG5. With AG5 he is now the ultimate Agility Player and you should give him Agility skills to make the best use of him.

Wow, that almost sounds like good advice... <snaps out of it>... but what a bunch of CRAP! Are you nuts? Give him Very Long Legs!!!

As you can probably tell I am (kind of) joking... just remember all of the advice in this thread should be viewed as 'creative alternatives' to VLL in case you have had one-turners in the past and you just want to do something different. My serious, final advice is to give him VLL and then Leap, because you can still go offensive with Sprint or defensive with Pass Block later, depending on how your other GRs have developed.

However, as someone else mentioned - if you are playing in a longer league (or online at FUMBBL) - you might want to put all that 'on hold' and get him Block first, or you will probably be telling your friends about "the coolest Gutter Rat I ever had - until he got Killed!"

juck101 · Post by **juck101** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 1:28 pm

leap is pretty good on ag5 but not that exciting really. you can dodge pretty well without any need to leap....

i would go for either NOS or accurate. he can then pick up and throw better than anything you are likely to develop. I would use him TO pass not to recieve passes. Madness inspired by a dodge thrower with ma9 can get to the ball anywhere and pick up under pressure AND dodge out! nice ability. give him surehands/block next skills and an ubber-versitile player.

Phipstar · Post by **Phipstar** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:14 pm

thanks a lot for all the replies, exspecially thr recent ones, but as the original post is almost one month old, i allready gave him VLL.
again, thx to all of you.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:02 pm

A month? Wow. So do you need advice on the second skill, or has the GR died yet?

kithor2002 · Post by **kithor2002** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:15 pm

You rolled doubles

Give him Foul appearance.This skill is extremly good for a Gr.It helps to keep him alive and its also a good combination with pass block which would be my next skill choice for him.

Nick-O · Post by **Nick-O** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:30 pm

Phipstar wrote:thanks a lot for all the replies, exspecially thr recent ones, but as the original post is almost one month old, i allready gave him VLL.
again, thx to all of you.

Good for you! Give us an update, how is he doing?

Phipstar · Post by **Phipstar** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:41 pm

he is still alive and running

as i never had a one-turner before, my next skill choice will probably be sprint.
i had only one game with my skaventeam since the original post, it was 3-0 victory over an undead team, thanks to the fans, 2 pit invasions

he made 2 td's, i'm sure it won't take long for him to get the next skill-roll.

Wonder · Post by **Wonder** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:53 am

Don't forget that he's already a potentiel one-turner.
A quicksnap or a well done pushback and he can score !

Phipstar · Post by **Phipstar** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:14 pm

yes you're right, i'm not allowed to block my own player, am i?