Goblin with block gaining second double

falconeyed · Post by **falconeyed** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:27 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:
falconeyed wrote:Sneaky Git?
Agility skill. Player is not ejected if he rolls doubles on a foul for the Armour roll if he failed to break armour.

Galak

Thanks.

el sid · Post by **el sid** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:59 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:
falconeyed wrote:Sneaky Git?
Agility skill. Player is not ejected if he rolls doubles on a foul for the Armour roll if he failed to break armour.

Galak

Excellent... Skill could be upgraded to "can ignore ANY doubles on AV roll", but hell I'm happy with ANY upgrade fouling receives in Vault rules.

But why make it Agility? As if Elfs are such sneaky bastards, most other teams only have very restricted access to Ag skills.

This is an excellent (and typical) skill for a Lineman type of player.

Never understood why Goblins didn't have access to Dirty Player. Just make both skills (Dirty Player and Sneaky Git) General AND Agility skill. Would be a lot more logical in my opinion.

el sid

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:33 pm

The reason it is agility is because Dirty Player is not. Really it came down to that. This is the fouling skill for goblins.

Also we really didn't want Skeletons having easy access to both skills. 30k players being good foulers is very different than a 70k player that is a good fouler.

Galak

el sid · Post by **el sid** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:12 am

GalakStarscraper wrote:Also we really didn't want Skeletons having easy access to both skills. 30k players being good foulers is very different than a 70k player that is a good fouler.

Galak

Funny thing is that nobody cares if a Goblin or a Skeleton gets sent off. They're so cheap there are plenty more where they came from.

So the Sneaky Git skill will allow for expensive Elf players to risk fouling without getting their expensive Linemen being sent off. But in my opinion, the skill is pretty weak in comparison to other skills Elfs can and should take to stay competitive.

So in short: I believe this skill is already dead before it has been launched:
- Goblins won't take it because it doesn't acutally improve your chances of fouling an opponent from the pitch. Nobody cares if a Goblin gets sent off, certainly not Goblin coaches. Goblins are not helped by this skill. They need Dirty Player access!
- Elfs won't take it as there are so many other great skills for them to invest in. Also the skill doesn't nullify the risk of your expensive Elf getting sent off. Elfs don't foul that much as a rule anyway, because this will ask them to concentrate their players while their strength lies in spreading out formation.

My proposals:
- Sneaky Git is a specialist skill which only seems worthwhile to take on your specialist fouler. Which should carry Dirty Player to make it a specialist.
- Unless some teams are willing to sacrifice one of their Catchers / Runners as a specialist fouler, only cheap linemen types of players will take the skill. By making it an AG skill, nobody will take it, as there are so many better options when rolling doubles. So make it a skill available to both AG and General access. This is the only way the skill will actually be taken by coaches. While we're at it, make Dirty Player also available to both General and Agility access.
- Make the skill description "ignore ANY double AV roll", otherwise the skill seems way to weak.

Mind you, I don't want to shoot this good idea. But the way it is proposed here it's just another dead skill which some people will try only one time on one of their players.

el sid

Totti · Post by **Totti** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:40 am

El Sid,

I really like sneaky git, if we had the vault 11 rules i would take it on every goblin that has gained a skill (not a double

)

Its like a 'mini' get the ref. If you don't break the armour nothing happens.

This seems like the ideal skill for goblins to start with. Or the goblin stays on the field or he (at the least) stunns an opponent.

el sid · Post by **el sid** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:43 pm

I'm not saying I don't like Sneaky Git. I like it too. But it can be improved in my opinion. In my first post I stated fouling in the Vault can use any help it gets.

With no automatic +1AV modifier for fouling, Dirty Player seriously toned down, no Mighty Blow modifier while fouling AND players getting sent off on both on AV and Inj roll doubles, fouling can use every boost it can get in the Vault. Sneaky Git is a boost, but the boost can be bigger.

Just have a look at our Vault league. In about 40 games, only 8 CAS's have been caused by fouling: Pathetic!

el sid

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:55 pm

Wow ... el sid ... you are the first person to suggest it isn't good enough.

For 2 weeks I had to deal with a large group of folks who said the skill was WAY too good.

Me ... I'm definitely taking this skill on my Snotlings ... no doubt about it.

Galak

el sid · Post by **el sid** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:45 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:Wow ... el sid ... you are the first person to suggest it isn't good enough.

For 2 weeks I had to deal with a large group of folks who said the skill was WAY too good.

I like the skill, and I would like it even better if it were stronger.

I guess you can count me in the "fouling has been nerfed too much" camp. But hey, it's all about compromises, isn't it?

As mentioned before: Any extra on fouling in Vault is appreciated!

el sid