New LRB 5 Dark Elf Players

[TalonBay]

I'm a reasonably experienced DE player under LRB4 and our league is starting up again soon with rookie LRB5 teams. What do people make of the new players?

From what I can gather so far the assassin isn't rated that highly, much talk about inducing him rather than paying for him outright. Not quite sure how this works as I've not used LRB5 at all but, putting aside how you purchase him, is he any good? Has anyone found particular uses for him?

I like the look of the runner, I've always started with a passer in the past as I play a pass heavy game and having the dump-off skill to start rather than pass is interesting (even if not as effective:). Is dump-off too easily countered or is the extra option it adds of real value? I like the extra movement of the runner over the armour, always figured he shouldn't be getting hit anyway

Anyway, how are you guys finding these two fit in with the rest of the team? I'm one of the few people I know who actually likes the witch elves (always start with one on the roster) so the team won't be just blitzers and linemen.

Cheers,
Gary

[dines]

imo the assassin can be used nicely as a threat against av7 teams, they tend to focus quite a lot on him, but don't hire him in the beginning.

For the runner... well av7 doesn't go too well with the dump-off, as you say he shouldn't be getting hit... so no use for dump-off. But mine got a +MA and then pass and now i kinda like him, even though the dump-off is rarely used.

[da_crusher]

...the armour, always figured he shouldn't be getting hit anyway

Never played the new DE, but faced them from time to time.

If you don't want him to get hit, you won't use dump off as well.
I would start with neither the runner nor the assassin. Opponents who focus on the assassin don't know what they are doing. Maybe a Ogre Coach, who tries to get rid of him before he eliminates all the snots. Against all other teams (without further skills on the guy) you will either have a AV7 player next to a standing opponent player or another of your players has to block him free in more than 50% of the stab attempts. Not a very big threat IMHO.

[Father911]

Dump-off is a skill that by it's nature will almost never be used, It has a bigger effect by forcing your opponent to change his gameplan to account for it.

It is a very effective anti-leaping, stripballer counter for instance. (sure hands is better, yes, but dump-off works against a direct knockdown as well)

you should play the running game with the intention of never getting hit, dump-off is for those instances when the defence slips through anyway.

As for the passing game, that extra movement is golden, it takes longer to skill them up but they can become very effective long passers.

Also consider getting 2 runners with nerves of steel, and safe throw. Run them together and your opponent will be pulling his hair out trying to figure out how to get the ball away from you.


For my advice on using the assassin see this thread... third post down.

viewtopic.php?t=20434&start=0

[Meradanis]

In my opinion, those Runners are great. Switch from the passing game to the running game, and you should be fine.

You need too many skills to transform your Runners into full-time Throwers. Don't try to compensate their weakness (no "real" passing skills), use their strength instead. 'Dumb Off' combined with 'Nerves of Steel' can be a real match winner. You even get SPP's for the completion if your opponent tries to blitz your Runner.

You can still use them for a quick pass, since it's only 2+ even without any passing skills. If you're using 'Nerves of Steel', you can even use the Runner as an additional assist in the same round you're making your pass action. Since dark elves have many MA7 players, you can effectively carry the ball over 24 square using a quick pass and a hand-off. Should be enough to score a Touchdown most times.

Also consider getting 2 runners with nerves of steel, and safe throw. Run them together and your opponent will be pulling his hair out trying to figure out how to get the ball away from you.

You can do this even without safe throw. Just do some minor cage work, and force your opponent to blitz from a position where he can't intercept.

[Jural]

The assasin isn't worth it for two reasons:

1) Not worth his team value (simply not reliable, but he is expensive)

2) Putting him on the starting roster takes away room for a Witch, Blitzer, or runner, all of whom are better.

Personally, I don't start with a runner either. They aren't a bad piece, but I prefer to not deal with too much Armor 7 right off the bat, and I think it's more important to get two skilled up witches before you grab the runner.

[Grogmir]

I like my Assasin, he's fun and people really do seem to focus on him. (or in my case her). Stab is a strange skill, yes, but its free. I like to have him in a position that would normally be assiting but cannot get a straight block. That way you get a 'free' attack. This free attack can also be used on turns where you might not do anything, i.e when you're about to score, just throw a quick stab beforehand.

I have to say though that my runner is way more useful, I started with No Runner, so he only came in after a few games and he already has the most SPP's on my team. Dump Off with Nerves of Steel is an amazing combo. Allows you to be a lot more open in your attack.

Grogmir

[TalonBay]

Thanks for the info, the link to the other thread on the assassin was very useful as well.

From what I can gather it looks like the runner has been an improvement for the team over the previous passer) so I'll probably take one with my starting lineup.

The jury is still out on the assassin, though he might sneak in for the fun factor.

The starting lineup is looking expensive if you want to take the positionals though

[wesleytj]

All elf rosters are expensive...it's part of their makeup. The assassins, as said, are pretty useful in certain situations, and pretty worthless in others. They are great against Norse and Amazons particularly, whose skills make them tougher to knock down, but with AV7, the assassin can punch through with relative ease.

I didn't start my dark elf team with a runner. I prefer to give all the line elves at least 1spp from completions before getting a runner/thrower type, that way whoever gets the mvp will get a skill. It works well enough for me.

For me, in a standard tv100 league, I'd start a dark elf team as follows:

4 blitzers 400
7 line elf 490
2 rr 10
1 ff 1

Not flashy, not fancy, but effective. Once you have that solid base of players skilled up a bit, you can support witch elves and runners better, and the av7 isn't as bad of a liability.

[PubBowler]

I think father911 has got Assasin use sorted. I don't think I have anything to add. Apart from echoing that Diving Tackle should be your 1st skill choice.

I will, however, say something (stop groaning at the back) about when to purchase them.

For me, they (yes, two of them) should be in your starting line-up. They skill up slowly and they're most effective early on in the league when you don't have the Block Tackle guys to pound on opposing Blodgers.

Later on the league, they might not be as useful or as needed and you should feel free to retire them (or not replace them after they die, which they probably will).

So my starting line-up would be:

300 3 Blitzers
180 2 Assasins
420 6 Lineman
100 2 Rerolls

Oh, and one tip: When recieving the Ball put Assasin and two Blitzers on LOS in pair of each type. Leave one Blitzer in back field to grab the ball. Stab twice on two opposing players, then block them away with 2Dice Blitzer hits if they're still standing. Three or four armour rolls straight off the bat.

P.S. I know nothing about Runner use. So I won't comment.

[voyagers_uk]

starting roster, mine looks exactly like Wesley's

Assassin's are definitely an acquired taste, but don't let that put you off

[Turin]

The assassin in this season's starting roster was my biggest mistake in the last couple of years. I should have bought a runner instead, as dump off is a great skill, especially combined with MA 7. I'm used to having my ball carrier get blitzed, as my opponents tend to roll great (or have some wardancers at their service), but dump off has won me quite a few games.

Btw: especially in leagues the dark elves got improved, as they can split their normal pass actions which have been done by their thrower before on all the linemen, furthermore they became faster (with the runner).

Courious detail on my assassin: I had may first 3 games against pro elves, high elves and khemri (with all those AV 7 skeletons), my assassin beat the opponents armour only twice in those 3 games, and still he's not improving. Furthermore you either place him where he is likely to be blocked (with AV 7 and no useful skill) or you have to waste a blitz on him.