3rd Double for a Treeman.

[Mad Jackal]

It took my undead opponent until only a few turns into the 2nd half to have my entire team off the pitch.

AFAIK, amazonians are not undead. All credit does go to Helmut Wolf however, who managed three BH and some ko's (of the top of my head).

I'm talking about the Chaos Cup in that. They were undead. I lost that match.

You're the match after and you didn't take everyone off the pitch. I still had an elf on the ground when you scored.

Plus I got enough back (4) to score on you the next drive.

[Mad Jackal]

This is the post match of the match after the Choas Cup. I did not win the chaos cup or this match you'd have to see the game file. What a treat. It took my undead opponent until only a few turns into the 2nd half to have my entire team off the pitch. Mind you he was getting only one blitz per turn (and no blocks). But he averaged a player a turn removal anyway.

Hi Jack

I feel for you. I decided to challenge his team with me elves. In 3 turns in and he has broken armour 5 of 6 times, and every break has been a KO (2) or injury (3). I am AV 7 and he has the MB skill for 4 of those 6 AV breaks. Not to mention that he has yet to fail on knocking a player down (5 for 5 and one stab thanks to the Chaos cup). It will not be a good game. I think he had to use a reroll once.

Back to your question.

I would vote Pro.

I still find it amazing your using that team. It has been beat up a lot! How are you finding the woodelves in LRB 5 and in a challenge league?

Old habits die hard. This is the 3rd Cup match I've been in. Lost all 3. I keep meaning to go back and do a count of how many players I've replaced and how much SE I've lost. But I don't have the free week it would require to go through all those old files.

I find I can't keep the team alive but barely in LRB 5.0. Journeymen are a serious help at times, but others I've just gone without 11 men. I can't even afford the luxury of an LOS journeyman taking me to another level of -10k in earnings....

Spiralling expenses are killing me. They do not funciton to fluctuate a team around any "cap value" as JJ intended. I'll grant you the MBBL is still the 150 = -10k type that was what PBBL_11 and adjusted before the LRB 5.0. But those changes wouldn't help me much anyway. I got up to 14 men with the tree and then spent like 4 games trying to be able to re-buy a WarDancer who was killed.

In fact my other Wood Elf team is on hiatus until the SE are adjusted because they have been completely crippled.

Forget OT. It's better to take the draw and +10k for winnings than to try and play more than 16 turns between winnings rolls and purchases. (Especially if my opponent wins the toss and gets 3 new LOS guys to hit)


I've taken lots of +1 AV which boosts my TV, and I'm not sure that it is working enough...

And with the glut of big boy stars + easy chainsaws + bribes even teams like Mepmuff's aformentioned "unskilled" and small TV amazons crush me off the pitch. - At little more than 1 blitz per turn.
bah, I'm starting to sound like I'm complaing than sharing my thoughts. I'll switch to e-mail for the rest if you are still interested.

[wesleytj]

Pro or Dodge, probably Pro.

Diving Tackle could be a good time too, with Jump Up...but not enough to take it over Pro.

[Aliboon]

I Vote for P(ed)ro

[datalorex]

I don't get those of you saying Frenzy. I hope you are kidding, because you don't have the movement to make Frenzy most effective (not to mention take root) plus with 3 dice quite often, you don't really need it. And pro would help reroll those bad dice rolls anyway.

And if you are trying to use the treeman as a distraction, then you don't want dodge. Who would go after a treeman with block and dodge anyway? They'll just stay away from it at all costs. Tackle, Grab, Sidestep, and Diving Tackle will make it more annoying.

But I'd still go pro. It's really a no-brainer.

[Snew]

He wants tentacles but can't have them.

How come chainsaws don't automatically kill treemen?

[wesleytj]

Because unlike a real tree, a treeman doesn't just sit there inert while you saw into it. Even with a big chainsaw, cutting down a tree takes some time.

[atropabelladonna]

Old habits die hard. This is the 3rd Cup match I've been in. Lost all 3. I keep meaning to go back and do a count of how many players I've replaced and how much SE I've lost. But I don't have the free week it would require to go through all those old files.

I find I can't keep the team alive but barely in LRB 5.0. Journeymen are a serious help at times, but others I've just gone without 11 men. I can't even afford the luxury of an LOS journeyman taking me to another level of -10k in earnings....

Spiralling expenses are killing me. They do not funciton to fluctuate a team around any "cap value" as JJ intended. I'll grant you the MBBL is still the 150 = -10k type that was what PBBL_11 and adjusted before the LRB 5.0. But those changes wouldn't help me much anyway. I got up to 14 men with the tree and then spent like 4 games trying to be able to re-buy a WarDancer who was killed.

In fact my other Wood Elf team is on hiatus until the SE are adjusted because they have been completely crippled.

Forget OT. It's better to take the draw and +10k for winnings than to try and play more than 16 turns between winnings rolls and purchases. (Especially if my opponent wins the toss and gets 3 new LOS guys to hit)


I've taken lots of +1 AV which boosts my TV, and I'm not sure that it is working enough...

And with the glut of big boy stars + easy chainsaws + bribes even teams like Mepmuff's aformentioned "unskilled" and small TV amazons crush me off the pitch. - At little more than 1 blitz per turn.
bah, I'm starting to sound like I'm complaing than sharing my thoughts. I'll switch to e-mail for the rest if you are still interested.

I feel for you. I hate bash heavy challenge leagues. Makes it tough for us 7AV elves.

I have been able to maintain a decent roster with my elves but my winning % is not nearly as good as yours (15-12-4). I can't get out of the win one lose one rut. And my TV is so high all those bash teams get more bash.

I havn't experienced the spiralling death effect yet. But I think the MBBL is set to LRB 5.0 spirally expenses, isn't it (i.e. 175, -1/15TV after that).

So you will argue that the wood elves need thier treemen then??

[Mad Jackal]

I feel for you. I hate bash heavy challenge leagues. Makes it tough for us 7AV elves.

I have been able to maintain a decent roster with my elves but my winning % is not nearly as good as yours (15-12-4). I can't get out of the win one lose one rut. And my TV is so high all those bash teams get more bash.

I havn't experienced the spiralling death effect yet. But I think the MBBL is set to LRB 5.0 spirally expenses, isn't it (i.e. 175, -1/15TV after that).

So you will argue that the wood elves need thier treemen then??

Short version for now. We've a history so I'll get you more detailed reasons / etc via e-mail when I can get the numbers put together / stuff written well.

MBBL is Not set to LRB 5.0 spiralling expenses.

http://www.midgardbb.com/MBBL/?show=Rules

That says we have to use what was programmed in the tool before. It was for the PBBL -It was the play test data from teams like mine in the MBBL before the printing that made the LRB values what it is. (Not enough was changed in my opinion but that is an aside.) I know I have had spiralling expenses taken from my team at below the listed 175 TV in the LRB 5.0.

And I am unsure on the Tree issue. They are a double edged sword. I'll have to go into that more later.

What I know is that
Longterm. the Perpetual part of the league - an important goal of the rules was to establish the ability to play perpetually.- the team struggles mightily in the MBBL.

[Snew]

Because unlike a real tree, a treeman doesn't just sit there inert while you saw into it. Even with a big chainsaw, cutting down a tree takes some time.

All trees inherantly fear the sound of chainsaws. It doesn't matter if they can move or not. They have to try and get away from it.

[mlindsay2706]

good reasoning there snew

thing is though. a treeman would just pick up and crush anyone with a chainsaw near it wouldnt they? might be cool to see some special rule into play though.

[Duke Jan]

Something like: Treemen and chainsaws are a lethal combination. A chainsaw will severely upset a treeman. If a chainsaw is within reach (including GFI's) the coach fielding the treeman must declare a blitz with the treeman, unless he can block the chainsaw in which case he has to block the chainsaw as his first action. The treeman has to move towards the chainsaw, ignoring take root for this turn. While chain saws are designed for cutting wood, wood that fights back is even more dangerous than a chaos warrior in full armour. The chainsaw will count as +4 on an armour roll against a treeman, but kicks back on a 1 or 2.