Cage breaking

[grampyseer]

I was just hoping to start up a conversation on how to break down a cage. Maybe some relevant tips with specific teams? It would probably be best to leave any tactics involving a players 3rd advancement out


On a related note, when you try to stall a cage: Do you position as many men as possible in the TZ of the cage, or do you keep 1 square back with a 3 abreast formation?
I'm just curious,

Skaven: I've found that a simple blodging Gutter runner can do the trick, it's a 1/2 dice block, but better than nothing.
(The real strength of the Gutter runner seems to be stopping a cage from forming. With movement 9, you can be on the ball almost immediately.)

[mepmuff]

First off, there are two reasons to try and break a cage. First, the obvious one of liberating the ball, second to force your opponent to move it. Just stacking players against the cage might not be such a bright idea if next turn your players get smacked around while the opponent plays the clock. Use expendible players with forgiving AV to try and dodge in, even if you'll need a six. A 1 in 6 chance will get your opponent moving if he knows you'll try it. Oh, and forcing your opponent to move the cage does not necesarily mean forcing him forward.

As for skills, dodge, leap, strip ball and wrestle are of course good. Break tackle on a high ST is great, especially if you can get dodge as well. Wrestle looks like a great skill for sticking players against the cage as does fend. Frenzy is of course a great way to knock a corner of a cage.

As to staying close or keeping the distance, that mostly depends on whether you want to stal your opponent so he runs out of time or to force him into a more open position. For keeping him from scoring I find that keeping a bit of distance works best.

[mattgslater]

On a related note, when you try to stall a cage: Do you position as many men as possible in the TZ of the cage, or do you keep 1 square back with a 3 abreast formation?

It depends on the teams involved. If I'm running Pro Elves, I'll stay a square back with a Blitzer and lino, and back them up with another guy before leaping a Catcher in to blitz the ball out. If I'm running Orcs, I'll smash as much as possible up against the opponent and make 'em take 1/2-die blocks or circuitous dodging routes to see if I can get a turnover while they're out of position.

[Duke Jan]

If you're playing against a team that is likely to cage the ball and you have enough inducements: get a wizard and threaten to fireball em.

Usually the corners of cages are very poor dodgers, this allows most teams to tie up the corners of a cage quite effectively if they're brave enough. They can block but they can't move. A cage takes half a team, putting the corners one-on-one you have 7 players to systematically take care of his 6 other players. It is of course not a recommended strategy with all teams.

Like mepmuff said dodging into a cage is always a good idea, a prone player inside your cage needs to be dealt with.

[Omalley69]

Its pretty hard to say what is good and bad against cages. It all depends on what team you are, and the caging team aswell.

But i like to throw teammates at enemy cages, even though i miss alot, LOL. and then just beat up the easy parts/corners of the cage. Eventually some will fall and the ball will be open for blitzes. (I play bashy, ogre mostly)

If i were dodgy, i whould place my dudes 1 square from the cage, and try to sorround them, and deny freee blocks. So they only go one square pr turn, and get a single bash pr turn ( from the blitz).

[datalorex]

Breaking the cage is only part of the story. Then what? Say you take the ball from the ball carrier in a cage. Now you are surrounded by a horde of players. How do you get the ball then? Your opponent could get the ball on the bounce, or he could just pick it up on the next turn and contiue on his way.

Therefore, you not only have to figure out a way to get the ball from the ball carrier, you also have to figure out how to pick up the ball after that or at least prevent your opponent from picking it right back up. It's not an easy task.

[Meradanis]

Breaking the cage is only part of the story. Then what? Say you take the ball from the ball carrier in a cage. Now you are surrounded by a horde of players. How do you get the ball then? Your opponent could get the ball on the bounce, or he could just pick it up on the next turn and contiue on his way.

One step at a time. As a matter of fact, those caging teams aren't the most agile ones. They'll be in real trouble after losing the ball, especially when there are some additional TZ's involved.
And you'll never know where the ball will land after those bouncing rolls. I've seen the ball landing outside of the cage countless times, the chances aren't that bad. But you're generally right, you should have some players left to eventually pick up the ball after breaking the cage.

Back to topic, the most common cage should be something like this:

Code: Select all

X-X
-B-
X-X

B is the ballcarrier, X are your caging players.

My basic strategies are very simply:
With an AG4 players, it's 5+ to enter the cage. That's more than 50% with a (Dodge) Reroll. Try to make it a 1 die block by cancelling those assists from the X players. If that's not possible, you should have Skills like Wrestle and Strip Ball. Leap generally helps to enter the cage.

If I have linemen with AV8 or more, try to position them the following way:

Code: Select all

P---P
-X-X-
--B--
-X-X-
P---P

P are your players.
Now your opponent needs 4 additional players to assist, or he's forced to make 1 die blocks. Such a setup will put a lot of pressure on your opponent, and if one of those blocks is only a Both Down/Skull combo (and your lineman has Block), you'll have the opportunity to break the cage next turn. Your P players should have Block/Wrestle naturally.

Or try to blitz 1 of those X players to reach the following situation:

Code: Select all

PxX
-B-
X-X

x is the prone player X.
Your player P should have skills like Block and Tackle. Additional skills could be Stand Firm (great!), Side Step or Diving Tackle. Now your opponent is forced to blitz your player P or try to dodge with B, both options could fail (especially if you have those extra skills I've mentioned).

[stashman]

If I have linemen with AV8 or more, try to position them the following way:

Code: Select all

P---P
-X-X-
--B--
-X-X-
P---P

P are your players.
Now your opponent needs 4 additional players to assist, or he's forced to make 1 die blocks. Such a setup will put a lot of pressure on your opponent, and if one of those blocks is only a Both Down/Skull combo (and your lineman has Block), you'll have the opportunity to break the cage next turn. Your P players should have Block/Wrestle naturally.

With Wrestle on the P players the cage will go down both ways! Great tactic!

[grampyseer]

Great tip meradanis.
I too, am finding wrestle to be a solid gold choice for an agile team.

[stashman]

Wrestle + Fend = The new block/dodge combo

Next thing is to nerf wrestle if it gets to good.

[grampyseer]

It's funny, our league has been avoiding iWrestle. With 6 players, many teams @ 10 games, I'm the first player to start using it.
Getting people to let go of the "block security blanket" can be tough I guess

[mattgslater]

Yeah, ditching Wrestle in our league was a "do or don't have any coaches" kind of thing. They're a bunch of old farts.

[sangraal]

I must admit I found using Vampires against 2 different Orc teams cages quite effective this past weekend in a tourney - mark one of the corners with a thrall, hypnotic gaze the other corner & in goes another vamp to blitz the ball carrier with 2 dice.

I got nailed 0-3 against wood elves though

sangraal

[Axtklinge]

On a related note, when you try to stall a cage: Do you position as many men as possible in the TZ of the cage, or do you keep 1 square back with a 3 abreast formation?

I guess it also depends on the result at that time.
I mean, if I'm ok with the score and if the objective is to hold the box back to avoid oposing TDs then I would probably play defensively, and keep a couple of players 1 square back of the box.
Remember that usualy the box its just the start of the play, that ends up with a player breaking from it and running for the TD.
Make sure you have a couple of players to try to avoid that!

Cheers
Axt