Pro Elf Skill-ups: input?

[mattgslater]

Man, my Pro Elves have exploded, in a good way! You can't do this stuff with Orcs. 4 games, and I'm at TR 153 (would be TV 1.57m in 5th), with 16 TDs, almost 20 Comps, a massively positive Cas ratio and only having allowed 2 opposing TDs. They've played all but one team in the league, and are 4-0. The next three games are against crippled Orcs, struggling Dwarfs and pretty scary Humans, but the real threat is late in the season against Skaven and Wood Elves (I've beat them both already this season, but they're good). It's a 15-week season with 3 matches against each team. Mostly 3rd-y rules, but a lot of the broken stuff was fixed with 5th-y patches; I don't think any of that plays on what I'm asking here, except that I don't care about handicap.

So I got four rolls in the last game, no doubles or stat increases (I have 4 players at 16-18 SPP and 3 at 6-7 SPP, so most of the buff ones are where they are for awhile). One of them I'm pretty sure on, the other three I have two conflicting ideas. It's not like I need help (I've had a lot of winning seasons and have never seen anything like this), but I'm trying to make the perfect team, so why not ask?

My team looks like this (EDIT: put in player numbers for post below):
11: Thrower w/Dirty Player (old rules), SKILL
02: Thrower
33: Blitzer w/Dodge, Tackle
24: Blitzer w/Dodge, SKILL
85: Catcher w/Dodge, Leap
46: Catcher w/+ST, Block
88: Catcher
61: Line-Elf w/SKILL
72: Line-Elf w/Niggling Injury
53: Line-Elf w/Kick
74: Line-Elf
65: Line-Elf
56: Line-Elf w/SKILL
FF 6 (5 free per league rules, and a string of really awful rolls)
2 Re-Rolls
Apothecary
3 CL
2 AC

My DP Thrower is getting Dodge, I think. It works well in conjunction with both skills she's already got. The only other team that has any Tackle so far is the Dwarfs (of course), but the Humans will probably start getting some soon, as just about all of them are ready to go up. This is my defensive Thrower: I field her on both sides.

My Blitzer will get either Tackle or Leap: the Orc team has two Dodge Blitzers, I have no fear of the Dwarfs, and that Tackle Blitzer played total havoc on the Rats, who are pretty well-coached (as are the Woodies; they're both 3-1, and the 1 was me). Leap is tons of fun, though. I could go Jump Up: Block/Dodge/Side Step/Jump Up is just a blast.

My two Linos will both get the same skill, so I can present a symmetrical defense that has already been stifling and will only get better now. Should that skill be Side Step or Dodge? Four guys with SS sounds like it would be impossible to crack without taking a guy off the field on your blitz. But giving them Dodge means that they'll be more likely to survive the blitz, and will give them more mobility as well. Note that I don't have a lot of RRs, though my ACs and CLs have made it feel more like 3 than 2 and I often have one left over after the half.

[mattgslater]

OK, so here's how I'm going to set up against most teams defensively.

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|-- -- 72 02 74 -- --|-- -- -- --
-- 33 -- --|-- 61 -- -- -- 56 --|-- -- 24 --
-- -- 46 --|53 -- -- -- -- -- 11|-- 85 -- --

65 and 88 warm the bench on defense or play backup.

Here's the real question. If 61 and 56 go Dodge, then their chances of getting taken down on a blitz go down from 75% to 56%, and the opponent will feel pressure to blitz with a blitzer (not a big deal, but at least I know where one is going). If the blitz goes against 56 and she gets pushed, then the opponent needs to put 74 down into her old location, knock 02 next to 61 and get at least a push against 72, and then there's a lane.

If they get Side Step, they are much more likely to go down (75 or 56 % instead of 56 or 30%). The chance of getting taken off the field is about 13% with Side Step and 10% with Dodge. However, if they go down, with Side Step they fall diagonally inwards, and even if stunned they play havoc on the opponent's ability to dodge. In that case, I might do this set-up instead against a speedy team, so they can be pushed directly behind the player on the end of the line. That would suck on a Quick Snap, though.

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|-- -- 72 02 74 -- --|-- -- -- --
-- 33 -- --|53 61 -- -- -- 56 11|-- -- 24 --
-- -- 46 --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- 85 -- --

So, Dodge or Side Step?

And for the Blitzer w/Dodge (#24, opposite the Dodge/Tackle one), do I go Leap to keep a Leaper on both sides, or do I go Tackle to keep a Tackler on each side? Or do I go Dauntless and build a big-guy hunter? Or do I go Jump Up because the combo is so obnoxious?

[datalorex]

Against that defence I'd blitz 33 or 24 from the side line. Even if I just push, I'd push in front of 46 or 85 opening the side line for several to get trough. No frenzy means no chance of getting pushed out.

[mattgslater]

Yeah, that hasn't worked yet. Remember, these are Pro Elves. So far, my Blitzer has always held up; even knocking her down is no help as she Side Steps back along the sidelines. I do have to say that nobody's stuck to it after early failures: the Rat coach got real paranoid about them towards the end of the game. I may end up dropping the Blitzers one squaremore back later in the season (next to the Catcher) if I'm worried about a particular team's blitz. I would also go for a different setup against Dwarfs, where containment isn't as important and Dodge doesn't help much. My other opponents will be Orcs (next, newbies, and real troopers despite horrid luck), Humans (1-2, but better than their record, with a scary Ogre (he just has Block, but he's got 7 casualties and 2 confirmed kills in 3 games, and by the time I see him he'll have something else).

Now, Dodge or Side Step for those Line-Elves? Or Block? And what for the Blitzer?

I didn't mean to sound gloaty, btw. I've landed on great luck (more than I was expecting, that's for sure), and I want to see how y'all would go with those players from here. The team won't be improving much soon, as I have only four players within an MVP of an improvement. The reality may be that it's just that the Pro Elf team list is scary good. If y'all haven't played them yet, they're fun like Wood Elves, with less pain. On D, they're even better, because their best corners and their best safeties are both great (not Wardancer-good, but close), and aren't the same guys!!! And their Throwers are cheap enough to justify throwing on the line as sacrifices until they get good. Highly recommended experience.

[DoubleSkulls]

I'd give block to the 2 line elves & probably strip ball or tackle to the blitzer

[Da_Great_MC]

I'd give Frenzy to the Blitzer. You don't have Frenzy in your team yet + it combines naturally with Dodge & Sidestep.

I'd give Dodge to both Linemen, because you want to run away reliably from your opponents, rather than hit'em.

I'd never give my opponent the option to perform a crushing Quick Snap, just put everyone two squares behind the scrimmage. Leaves enough pressure on your opponents backfield and keeps your players safe(r) from harm.

Good luck

[mattgslater]

I'd give block to the 2 line elves & probably strip ball or tackle to the blitzer

Is the Block an answer to the likelihood that my interior linebackers will get blitzed by opponents with Block? I like the idea of having additional Block players available in the thick of things: they can get free even without Dodge, and I can use my Blitzers to tie up routes while they perform the blitz action.

I like the idea of two Blitzers with Tackle. I'm leery of Strip Ball: every team except mine has one or two Sure Hands players, and I'm pretty sure that all except maybe the Wood Elves will have two by the time I face them again. I want to develop my +ST/Block Catcher into the Frenzy player -- a second will have to wait until I have a reason. What about Dauntless? I get to use the old rules (2d6, beat ST), but it's just not a very high-ST league: the Orcs aren't faring well, and the only other +ST players out there are big guys (the Humans' Ogre is kind of worrisome, actually).

[Jural]

Solid suggestions, I would lean towards a frenzy blitzer personally. Also, if it were me I'd consider leader on the thrower. Dodge is nice, as is sneaky git, but I'd get leader.

I suppose sometimes you'll lose the player early on and not get the leader re-roll, but I doubt you are fouling every turn and fouling early. Odds are you tactically foul key opponents, maybe 3 per half?

Also, I'd consider Dirty Player on a second player, if you are playing that way anyway... Perhaps one of those linemen?

[Cramy]

If they have lots of Sure Hands, then Strip Ball is of lesser value, maybe. Do they pass a lot and let their catchers have the ball in your end? If so, then strip ball is useful to get to these guys.

Having a strip ball player may force your opponent to run the ball with the Sure Hands player, which is good for you.

On my DE team I'm developing my kick lino to have Strip Ball and Wrestle. I think it's a combination worth thinking of.

[mattgslater]

I'm hesitant to give Leader to my Dirty Player, though I would have gotten Leader with her had she not gone up at precisely the wrong time. I'm not fouling every turn, but I am fouling early to keep key players off the pitch. Sneaky Git isn't available.

@ Cramy: I'm not gaming for the Orcs: they have a newbie coach. The Dwarfs have only one Runner at the moment, but with 60k in the bank and another game to play between now and then I'm expecting to see two. The Wood Elves and Rats both overuse their positionals (the WE Thrower has SH), so I'm up against a lot of Dodge and SH when I go for the ball-carriers. SB would work sometimes, but it's usually the same times when I'd want Tackle. SB would be pretty good against the Humans, but they have a tendency to cage up on their Dodge Thrower and pop out a TD pass when the opportunity presents (they know better than to stall on me). They are kind of poundy: if I want to game against them, it'll be Dauntless to deal with that Ogre.

[mattgslater]

Frenzy's growing on me for the Blitzer. The more I run it over in my head the more I like it. She sits in the WZ opposite my ST4 Catcher and is ready to shove someone off if they'll let her. Hey, if I keep her opposite that ST4 Catcher it means she'll be next to the Leap Catcher, who can get/eliminate key frenzy assists with Leap.

I think I like that better than any of the other ideas so far. Having a Frenzy player on each wing sounds like it'll be a blast. Bookends with Tackle/Blodge/Side-Step is just so tempting, but Frenzy/Side-Step is a good combo.