Fan Factor in LRB5

[Ullis]

Hello!

I had a look at the sticky thread on starting lineups for LRB5. Everyone seemed to suggest that 0 FF is the way to go. Why is this? If you have more FF than everyone else, you're gonna get 10 or 20 thousand more per game right from the start. That difference will translate to an extra positional player (that I'm assuming you're missing out on for buying the FF) pretty quickly. Your starting lineup is a bit weaker compared to 0 FF but that is to some extent evened up by the fact that extra rerolls are coming your way and any rocks are targeted at the opponents half.

So, my question is, does 0 FF make sense? I tried searching for previous posts on this, but couldn't find any in-depth discussion.

[fen]

A big part of the issue is winning the FAME roll is only 10K extra, unless you roll more than double. But winning a match gives you +10K and a chance to reroll the dice - plus you get to win. So winning the match is better than winning the FAME roll.

Now it's great if you can manage to do both, but as you're both rolling 2D6 to determine the gate. A modifier like +3 or +4 just isn't going to pay out. Each 10K you spend on FF has to be recouped from winning the FAME roll before FF starts to generate profit. In a short term league of say, 10 matches it just doesn't pay off.

Additionally, 20K spent for 1CL plus 1AC negates +1FAME in most of the kick off table situations. So the only real advantage there is in the Throw a rock situation. Which happens 1/18 Kick Off rolls. Not worth worrying about too much. And the pitch invasion - 1/36... Shrugs, I can take the loss there if it happens.

Also, as you must roll 2D6 at the end of a match (if you drew or lost) higher FF goes down easier than low FF goes up. It's easier to start with 1, 2 or 3 and get to 6 after 3 wins than it is to start at 8+ and hold there.

The final reason is spiralling expenses, the higher your FF is when you reach the SE bracket. The worse off your team actually is. That extra +10K you might be getting at that point is offset by the fact that you have maybe 70-80K of Team Value sunk into FF. Which is 3-4 skills that you could have had instead.

As a consequence, it's really only worth grabbing a high FF if you can get 7 or more to start so you can aim for the +2 FAME. But for many teams that's a positional. Which is why it tends to be Stunty and Vampire teams that can pull it off.

Personally I'd happily play a team with 0 FF all career than gain it. But you can't cut your FF.

And that in a nut shell are some of the reasons why FF is kept low in LRB5.

[sirsebstar]

actiuaally, I started new in the BBA league and had not read the rules right( I did not know you could start with 0 ff), so I started loading up on FF.
I had the 9 FF, it gave me more then double to amount of fans hence +2 FAME. (that part I got right)
Kick-off result, Pitch invasion.. I can tell you with a +2 modifier to get your other team stunned, well the look on my opponants face was worth the 90K...lol

still, now I would advocate 0FF since extra FF is easy to get after each game. And its not going to make that much of a difference in the long run, but it(creds spend on roster) could give you a chance NOW to win a game

[Meradanis]

I believe Fen summed it up pretty well.

If your league doesn't play overtime, many of your games will be ties. If your start with low FF, it will increase most of the time (win or tie), so why bother with a high FF that will probably sink in case of a tie ? I'd rather invest the money in long term survivability (apo) or extra positionals.

To put it in a nutshell: A high FF is still good, but there are many things even better you could buy for the same money.

[PubBowler]

Fen has it right IMO.

Remembering that FAME also effects Pitch Invasion.

My first game lost at the WC was pretty much the result of 9 of my 11 Dwarves getting stunned just before I received on the first turn.
With some dodging I managed to get one tackle zone on the ball which wasn't enough to stop the opposing drive.

[fen]

I think you either start with 0 or 9. Anything else just is either a waste of money or a failure to commit properly towards getting the +2FAME.

[PubBowler]

I don't think taking FF2 is a waste of money.

This is impossible to lose through lost matches, is always going to go up if you win (both advantages of FF0) but has a slightly positive effect on FAME rolling.

I'm not saying it's always better than upgrading a lineelf to a catcher or other positional swap but I don't think it's waste either.

[fen]

If you've already bought all of your key positionals then FF2 is a sound investment. But if you still have positionals to save for it's better to ignore the FF and put it in the bank. Except in leagues which you know will be long term.

This is what I did with my Nurgle team and it sped up my entire team development by a complete match in about an 8 to 10 game season. As a consequence I have a complete squad after 6 games.

Additionally, that 2 extra points of FF would have resulted in reaching higher bands of inducements on several occasions. The most notable is my most recent match where I was at 140K. 10K more and I would have faced a Wizard.

FF would have been a waste of money as it is in any league with a lower number of matches.

[Marlow]

I don't think taking FF2 is a waste of money.

Except after a few games teams with FF0 will also have FF2 and an extra 20k in the bank. Dice rolls can never put FF down below two so you might as well get it for free through playing.

With 20k Cheerleaders and Coaches are a better investment for a starting team.

I agree that FF 0 or 7+ apear to be the best options.

[PubBowler]

Only if you win or draw both games. And you do get benefits from having the FF, even if it's small. Potentially the most important of these is the increased winnings that FAME can give you.

I think CL & AC are fine for tournie starts but not for league rosters.
I don't think I've even start Halfing or Goblins with them...

[datalorex]

Only if you win or draw both games. And you do get benefits from having the FF, even if it's small. Potentially the most important of these is the increased winnings that FAME can give you.
I think CL & AC are fine for tournie starts but not for league rosters.
I don't think I've even start Halfing or Goblins with them...

I'm going to side with PB on this one. 2 or 3 FF to start is optimal because you virtually can't lose it. It takes 3 wins/ties to get up to 3 FF if you start with 0 FF, but you can lose 3 straight matches when starting with 3 FF and you won't go down. CL and AC can be bought later (never buy more than 2 of each), but you can't buy FF later. Just a few FF exponencially lowers your chance of getting doubled off of the Fame roll and it greatly increases your chance of getting Fame+2 against a team with 0 Fame.

Don't underestimate Fame. It comes into play on 64% of the kickoffs.

[mlindsay2706]

if youve got the spare change basically, go for it.

its the last thing you buy mind. re rolls, players, all come before it. and saving money for the treasury can always be useful

like said before though, buying 2 or 3 means youve always got some.

buy it if you can. dont think you have to make room for it

[datalorex]

if youve got the spare change basically, go for it.

its the last thing you buy mind. re rolls, players, all come before it. and saving money for the treasury can always be useful

like said before though, buying 2 or 3 means youve always got some.

buy it if you can. dont think you have to make room for it

Agreed. Don't go out of your way to get it, but get it if you have money left.

[Omalley69]

Agreed. Don't go out of your way to get it, but get it if you have money left.

I dont agree. Save the money no matter what. Your FF often goes up for free. So why not save the money for something more important?

Besides, you dont ever start with a complete team, you always need that apoc. or ekstra RR or player. And saved cash helps you get thouse lost/injured players swapped for some fresh new players.