I have difficulty using Linemen well

[McTavish]

Maybe it's the league I'm in, but I've never quite mastered the art of actually using linemen. Whatever team I wind up playing, I usually wind up with a slew of awesome runners/throwers/catchers/etc, relatively awesome bashers, and utterly unused linemen.

Case in point, on my current Norse team I have three linemen now who have an MVP but have never gained a single SPP otherwise. I've tried getting the useless bastards to pick up the damn ball and throw it one square to someone, anyone, and in every game I've tried it they've just eaten my rerolls and failed miserably in every instance. They've each dropped a hand off, one has failed to pick up the ball twice in a row with rerolls each time, and more infuriating nonsense. I only really have so many turns I can afford to throw away before I start getting in severe danger of losing the game.

My terrible luck notwithstanding, how in the world are you supposed to get skills on linemen? Just hope for MVPs and let them continue to be assist-providing speedbumps otherwise? They're fairly frequent players in the blocking game, but getting them casualties doesn't seem to want to happen. After their recent spat of disgraceful ball handling, I have little desire to try again...

[thechosengobbo]

Generally I will try for a completion with a Lineman every time I receive in turn 7/8 of the half. That way they'll skill up if they get the MVP.

Linos are slow to skill up, but they have the advantage that they can be tailored to suit whatever role you need them to when they do.

[Joemanji]

Sounds like you are being unlucky. Just do what you have been doing and eventually the Casualties, completions and MVPs will do the job.

Or play a team like Elves where AG4 means your linemen are really easy to skill up.

[mattgslater]

I like Joe's advice. Keep it up: don't let unlikely failures discourage you. One of the best things about this game is that optimal strategy occasionally leads to getting burned on an unusual result, meaning good coaches can still have fun because they'll occasionally end up in situations that they know how to avoid.

One thing that I do that really helps is to nominate 1-2 players that I'm going to try and improve with at the start of any given drive and then put them where they can do the job, even if they're not the optimal player for the position. Sometimes it takes a little scheming.

Any other advice? Let's see...

Take enough Re-Rolls if you intend to handle the ball with linemen.

If you're going to pack the line with AG3+ linos, hire at least one more than you'll stick on the line, so you can always try to score with a lino.

If you're playing in a perpetual format and intend to field several AG3+ linos, hire fewer positionals than you otherwise would, so you can get your rotation going. Then take positionals out of winnings. If you're playing in a short format, don't bother, or only maybe one player if the money is right to grab another TRR.

If you want good practice using schmoes to handle the ball, try any of the Chaos teams, or Underworld Pact. If you want life without schmoes, then play an Elf team, or Orcs.

[voyagers_uk]

I have started making the occasional quick pass with Dwarf Blockers to reach first or second skills... so 4+ pick up and 4+ throw. it seem to be the ol standard that if it is a "million to one shot" it will work every time


[for those that want to tell me that those odds are not a "million to one" you need a life and to understand superstition more....]

[lerchey]

I have to agree with what others have posted. We recently played a league season with a large(ish) number of teams (14 or so) and few players (4) so we took turns with various "house teams". That allowed us all to play a lot of different team types - dwarves, elves, goblins, humans, etc.

Recap:

- keep them active. If you use the line players as speed bumps, they'll skill up like speed bumps. Position them for 2 die blocks to roll up opposing lines, set up assists then use them to blitz (always try for 2 dice when you have an unskilled lineman in play!). Eventually, you're going score CAS (even if it's only against goblins and 'flings, but you'll get them!) and you'll get skills.

- If you can (like, if you're in the lead, have little chance of losing the game) try quick passes for completions. Even that 1 point (and yes, expect to use a re-roll!) helps in getting skills. Combined with an MVP, it's the first skill.

- If at all possible, try for interceptions. Most players only get INTs on a 6 anyway, so who cares if it's a lineman that has to roll the 6?

- don't give up on them.

In the three teams that I care about in our league (basically "my" teams, though one is primary and others don't get to play them), all of them have skilled linemen. My dwarf team has a lineman with +1 MA. Added with block, tackle, and TS, he's a stand-in blitzer. Guard is also scattered around my line - 2 or 3 IIRC. My robot team (more heavily armored humans, and MUCH more expensive!) have lost most of their games. But they have two linemen that gained Block, and one that has +1 AV and +1 MA.

While the majority of our line players don't have skills, many do, and most have at least a few SPPs. They're the team "generalists", and should be used to fill roles that the other specialists don't (kick is a good example). And they generally, even without skills, do their jobs and hold or break the opposing line. :)

[SillySod]

Unless they're elves (or zons) then I wouldnt worry about linemen skilling. They will generally pick up SPP sooner or later. If you start getting caught up in skilling them then you often lose sight of more important stuff like winning the game.

The impact linemen have on a game tends to be determined more by the coach using them than the skills they have.

[Carnis]

Norse linemen start out perfect, you don't need to skill em up. If you do get a skillup, first one should get DP, the next ones mix of tackle/fend.. After that, you run out of skills to pick.. Kick maybe, but not entirely necessary..

[Jural]

I love Kick on my Norse Linemen. I find it really helps with Norse to have Kick.

[Baduk]

you seem just very unlucky, keep trying!

I have started making the occasional quick pass with Dwarf Blockers to reach first or second skills... so 4+ pick up and 4+ throw. it seem to be the ol standard that if it is a "million to one shot" it will work every time


[for those that want to tell me that those odds are not a "million to one" you need a life and to understand superstition more....]

those odds aren't a million to one

but maybe if he'd stand on one leg it might be.
with one eye closed.

man, I love Pratchett

[Jural]

I have started making the occasional quick pass with Dwarf Blockers to reach first or second skills... so 4+ pick up and 4+ throw. it seem to be the ol standard that if it is a "million to one shot" it will work every time


[for those that want to tell me that those odds are not a "million to one" you need a life and to understand superstition more....]

Those odds will rapidly approach 1 in a million the more you need the pass to succeed! Unless it's your opponent who needs it, then the odds approach 1. It's Nuffle's Law.

[mattgslater]

You don't need a lino to suck. My Humans just got beaten 1-0 by a relatively new coach (15 games or so), largely because even though I was able to engineer four credible TD pass attempts (I mean, with skills or TRRs to cover all rolls... one was a 4+ pass with Pass, and one was a 3+ with Pass and an Int attempt, but the other two were 3+ QPs with Pass, without coverage, either to a Catcher or with a TRR), not one of them worked. In fact, one was intercepted by a Troll, one scattered improbably off the pitch and was thrown in straight to an Orc Blitzer, who caught it in a TZ, and one scattered between two Orc players (the other was just a fumble). It was actually very funny how horrible it was.

[wesleytj]

Sounds like you are being unlucky. Just do what you have been doing and eventually the Casualties, completions and MVPs will do the job.

Or play a team like Elves where AG4 means your linemen are really easy to skill up.

There's also the exact opposite approach - play a team whose linemen are worthless by design, and therefore dirt cheap. I'd look at one of the undead lineups, you can get guys who run 30-40k and regenerate...

With that roster, you EXPECT your linemen to suck, but you use your high money players (mummies, werewolves, whatever) to do the actual work.

But yeah, other than that, you've just had crap luck.

[Big Daddy]

I love linemen. They are the work horses of your team generally. The poor guys who get fed to the opposing big guys...the underdogs. They are also the best place for a bunch of useful skills that seem wasteful on your high value positional players.

The best way I have found to skill low to average AG linemen is via a casualty and an MVP. Set these guys up to take 2d blocks when you have re-rolls in hand. Just make sure that a set of skulls or both down isn't going to cost you position. I find linemen magically seem to get more than their fair share of MVP rolls, I think it's Nuffles way of teasing us when we have positional players just a few SPP short of their next skill roll

I really prefer not to gin around trying to make quick passes in the back-line for the QP + MVP skill up. It almost invariably ends up costing re-rolls and against the wrong opponent the game if they have the pace to exploit turn overs.

High AG linemen are a cinch to level with a hand off to TD or a quick pass + MVP.

The main thing about skilling your linemen is to have a plan. Too often I see teams where the linemen have a mish mash of skills that doesn't complement what a coach is trying to achieve with their positional players. It's always fun too when a big name opposing positional player gets duffed up or scored on by a lowly lineman. The bragging rights are fantastic

In my orc roster I currently have 3 linemen, the fourth was recently killed - a job hazard in BB!. I have two wracklers - one with frenzy also and a lineman with kick and strength 4. These are all very useful players who never would have had a chance if I had stuck with a more traditional orc build. Where would I have put wrestle into my roster without linemen? Kick would have to have gone to a thrower most likely robbing them of a valuable scoring/ball retention focused skill. The linemen have provided excellent deep safeties freeing up my high value blitzers to be more aggressive and look to turn the ball over further down field and exploit their higher MA value.