Are Nurgle a slayer team, or not?

[Smeborg]

I have played about 60 league games with Nurgle (3 leagues), plus half a dozen tournaments. So I am starting to get the hang of them.

One interesting dynamic that I have discovered through trial and error (mostly error!), is that Nurgle do not seem to work well as a slayer team (Claw, M-Blow etc.). While no doubt they can be built as a slayer team, they seem to be far more successful when they re-inforce their annoying Nurgly mutations by developing into a side designed to deny position, ball movement and blocks to the opponent.

In my experience, Nurgle do not fare well against bash teams if they try to play their game. This simply degenerates into M.A.D., with Nurgle typically coming off second best. However, played and developed accurately, it seems that Nurgle can play the denial game against bash teams nearly as well as against AG teams. And they avoid M.A.D. So I am considering developing my next Nurgle team with no slayer skills at all. In tourmaments I am starting to do well with Nurgle without taking any slayer skills.

What is your experience, and has anyone had success with this (non-slayer) style of development in a league, particularly against bash teams?

[Craigtw]

I think you hit the nail on the head that when it comes to a bashygame Nurgle are a distant second tier to other teams as they lack the skills from the get go to put them on par with the true "bashy teams". (Their lack of any block skills being the most serious concern!)

I think you are correct in that their strength lies in stymying the other team, and while it may be fun to focussing developing all your tems' skills on denying your opponent, I think it is more useful to take a mix of defensive (e.g. block) as well as some ball handling skills (extra arms) to make sure that you are able to make plays when needed to score those all-important touchdowns/

[Craigtw]

Hit the button twice - deleted the duplicate post

[Joemanji]

I think many teams can get away with having just one dedicated "killer" (Block, Claw, MB, PO, Tackle). After all, you only get one blitz per turn, and a good coach will try not to give you any other blocks. That leaves plenty of room for denial skills.

What are your favourite denial skills btw? Stand Firm? Tentacles?

[Craigtw]

What are your favourite denial skills btw? Stand Firm? Tentacles?

For me it is Disturbing Presence all the way. Tentacles is great and all, but it has such limited application. Disturbing Presence not only has such a wide range of effect, you don't even have to be standing to use it! Hell, you can even be stunned and have it work! What is also great about this skill is that it works even before it works! So many times I have seen elves or skaven either not pass or totally go out of their way to avoid the effects of the DP. Finally, the fact that all the DP is cumulative can really ruin an elves day - and THAT is always good for me!

[Carnis]

Chaos are a slayer team.

Nurgle is Chaos with -1 MA, +9 regen, +1 AV9 guy, -1 Frenzy. Nurgle have a skill on 5/11 players that negates blocks. I would say they can be a slayer team with the best of them.

Nurgle just aren't as good at it to begin with, as dwarves/CDs/Orcsies..

But if that's a criteria, then chaos arent a slayer team either..

[Warpstone]

What is your experience, and has anyone had success with this (non-slayer) style of development in a league, particularly against bash teams?

I tried exactly this and it was a pretty profound gameplan on defense. Nurgle are just amazing at gumming up midfield. This forces most teams to take risks moving the ball into the nurgle half, such as down the sideline or throwing from deep back.

To this day, my nurgle squad is the only team where I always choose to kick first and let my defence dictate the game.

[Craigtw]

To this day, my nurgle squad is the only team where I always choose to kick first and let my defence dictate the game.

You should do this with just about any bashy team when playing against fast teams that you can encourage to score in turn 2 or 3. You then take the rest of the first half to score - they kick to you in the second half and you take that whole half to score. You win 2-1!

[mattgslater]

To this day, my nurgle squad is the only team where I always choose to kick first and let my defence dictate the game.

You should do this with just about any bashy team when playing against fast teams that you can encourage to score in turn 2 or 3. You then take the rest of the first half to score - they kick to you in the second half and you take that whole half to score. You win 2-1!

I hate that game. I'd rather hold 'em out, turn over the ball, and score on turn 8, or on turn 4-6 if the opponent starts bleeding really bad. I get this horrible feeling every time I get scored on, and in my mind a 2-1 victory carries an asterisk.

[Craigtw]

To this day, my nurgle squad is the only team where I always choose to kick first and let my defence dictate the game.

You should do this with just about any bashy team when playing against fast teams that you can encourage to score in turn 2 or 3. You then take the rest of the first half to score - they kick to you in the second half and you take that whole half to score. You win 2-1!

I hate that game. I'd rather hold 'em out, turn over the ball, and score on turn 8, or on turn 4-6 if the opponent starts bleeding really bad. I get this horrible feeling every time I get scored on, and in my mind a 2-1 victory carries an asterisk.

I hear ya, but reality of playing woodies or skaven is there is often not a whole helluva lot you can do to prevent that first TD! (Unless you are Nurgle of course!)

[mattgslater]

I like to open with a receiving drive against Wood Elves, especially if I have a secret weapon and some kind of passing game (Orcs come to mind). If I can get rid of a Wardancer and/or a Catcher in the first drive, I'll shoot for a 2-3-turner to make them sell out for a catch-up score (50/50) and give me either a 2-point lead or another shot at their DL (exception: lots of knockouts, an unintentional stall, a deep elf bench or a secret weapon mean I try to hold on for an 8-turn jobbie and put up a 1TTD defense). Kick is very good against Wood Elves, as if they can't get the ball out of blitzing range you'll eat their lunch. Not so many other agility teams: High Elves can survive a 3-turn scrum, Skaven have the S access and low-cost linemen to cope, but Kick is as good against Wood or Pro Elves as it is against Undead or Dwarfs (well, close).

Then, facing an 8-or-9 man offense on average, I can usually provide pressure and still smother the receivers and force crazy die rolls. Having more guys is a great counter to having less MA. Of course, when you're Woodies, "crazy" only looks crazy, and is really only somewhat unreliable. Still, things go wrong, and a down-men elf team can't account for it if it happens. Then they go down (0-2) to (1-3), with 4-6 turns to go.

As a Chargers fan, I know well the feeling of a high-flying offense with no muscle (well, the Bolts would be more like Pro Elves... but you get my point). That's what a 9-man Wood Elf team is like: you can do what you do best well enough, but if you try the other game it won't work. Manage your squares and sequences very well, and usually a smart 11-man defense will hold them out long enough to make something happen upfield. 11 guys can usually protect someone and you're banking on forcing a 4+ roll somewhere, or several easy rolls, and hoping for something that turns it over.

[Smeborg]

Thanks for all your interesting comments, guys. The following is the sort of concept I am toying with for next season:

14 man squad, all positionals, 3 RR, 0 AC/CL, skill development as follows:

Beast: Break Tackle, Stand Firm, Guard
4 Warriors: Block, Stand Firm, Tentacles, Grab
3 Pestigors: Wrestle, Fend, Tackle (one of them will take Kick first)
1 Pestigor: Sure Hands, Kick-off Return, Extra Arms
Rotters: Block, Fend, Foul Appearance (Guard on doubles?)

I am a bit unsure of doubles choices on the Pestigors and Rotters. While Dodge/Sidestep is tempting, part of me just wants to get on with the "normal" skill development. Jump Up is also tempting. The Pestigor runner would only play on offense. Wrestle is just so good on Pestigors, that I want to take it on 3 (I have been going with 2, typically). To whom and when to give Guard is a classic problem of the Nurgle team, I fear, with no obvious solution.

All the best.

[Wanchor]

I like the look of your plan, but at least one Pestigor must take Guard. Caging up with the warriors will reduce the need for it, but it's good way to help yourself out of a tight spot or simply prevent yourself from falling into one. I say to swap out one of your workhorse Pestigors for a bodyguard, giving him Guard, Stand Firm, Block and keep him near the ball carrier.

Anyway, will watch this team's progress with great interest.

[Grumbledook]

what about diving tackle on doubles?

do you really need tentacles on all 4 warriors as well, i'd get guard on a couple of them at this point as you want to not make things too easy for other bashing teams

foul appearance won't be that much of an issue for them

[Craigtw]

do you really need tentacles on all 4 warriors as well,

I think one (two at most) with tentacles would be good - it is amazing even with S4 how the dodgy teams will sweat when he gets into a TZ! Another solid mutation would be Prehensile Tail. Whether Tentacles or Prehensile Tail, this warrior would be well suited to take Tackle as a next skill.