Discuss Fantasy football-style board games - GW's Blood Bowl, Impact!'s Elfball, Privateer Press' Grind, Heresy's Deathball, etc. THIS IS NOT AN NFL FANTASY FOOTBALL SITE!
Carnis wrote:Block certainly isn't necessary for turnover avoidance. You can almost always setup both blocks with 2d, and the chance of turnover becomes neglectable.
1/9 is "neglectable"? When you be throwing up to 100 blocks per game? Doubtful.
It's not 1/9. It's around 1/81, a little more as you could roll a double both down due to frenzy if you only get a push on the reroll. Still, a standard elven dodge is 1/36 -> over twice the risk and many people consider it no big deal at all.
What are we talking about here? You said "Block certainly isn't necesary for turnover avoidance". So we are talking about 2D blocks without the Block skill. Which fail 1/9 (11%) times. A turnover occurs if you roll a skull or a both down on both dice = 1/3 of the dice faces x 1/3 = 1/9.
In fact, for a Ulf it is more, becuase you have to throw the second block on a push result. Even if that second block is 2D, you are still up to 16%. If the second block is 1D this rises to 26%.
Reason:''
*This post may have been made without the use of a hat.
A turnover occurs if you roll a double skull/bothdown that is not rerolled. The chance after a reroll is about 1/81, which is very manageable.
Block helps, by making the turnover chance 1/1296 per block (i.e. ridiculously low, if you don't HAVE to down the opponent), but in general you're fine with 1-2 1/81 rolls per turn anyway, when elves have to rely on multiple 1/36 dodges per turn in comparison.
Carnis wrote:A turnover occurs if you roll a double skull/bothdown that is not rerolled. The chance after a reroll is about 1/81, which is very manageable.
That is only true with infinite rerolls. Generally I have found that the dice don't tend to fail at a convenient time. What if you have already used your reroll that turn on, say, a pickup roll? What if ... heaven forbid ... your opponent isn't an idiot and is actually putting you under a bit of pressure? So maybe you need to make a D6 roll to set up a chain of 2D blocks? Sure, with infinite rerolls and an opponent lining up 2D blocks for you there is less need for Block. I wish games like that actually existed.
Reason:''
*This post may have been made without the use of a hat.
Joemanji wrote:BLa bla blaa ... heaven forbid ... your opponent isn't an idiot and is actually putting you under a bit of pressure? So maybe you need to make a D6 roll to set up a chain of 2D blocks? Blah Blah Blah
Spamming MB/PO with DP and Claw you're less likely to come under pressure after the initial 3-4 turns.. Or you've already lost due to your AV7 and it comes down to saving your players for the 2nd half.
Personally have found MB the most important werener skill (now Werewolf with the "competition rules pack"). Taking Block or Wrestle or Piling on as the skill after that is up to personal taste, with block slightly favoured over wrestle.
This is all league dependant though, in a lot of leagues I would probably prefer taking guard on all 5 S-access players. I just have to disagree that a team which starts with 8-9 starting block in their best 11 is best served by automatically taking block on 2 of the 3 players that don't.
Thanks for your thouhts guys, glad my question sparked such discussion. I'm a little confused on the reliability front though, surely having block or Wrestle give you exactly the same chance to avoid a turn over? (Although of course wrestle is less likely to cause your opponent a TO).
Do people think then it's not worth having any players on the Norse team with wrestle, as I really don't think anyone would think it worth while taking it on somebody who already has block.
Reason:''
“Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.”
-- Terry Pratchett
Bungo - I think the main cases you can argue for Wrestle on the Norse team are:
- On the Ulfs, as second skill (after Break Tackle). I like this idea; it seems others on this thread do not.
- As a later skill on a Lino. Fend and Tackle are better candidates for the first two skills, but I guess you could give Wrestle as a third skill (not that many Norse Linos will get that far).
The way I play my Norse, my Ulf's are my primary Guarders, (with my Snow Troll) and as such I need them on their feet, hence I always go Block. If on the other hand you wind up using your Ulf's differently, say as a Blitzer of the ball carrier, I could see the potential for Wrestle. However even then i would prefer a STR 4 piece to be staying on is feet anyway.
In terms of anyone else on the team - personally I wouldn't waste the TV in giving anyone else Wrestle as you'll just be doubling up on a skill.
Carnis wrote:A turnover occurs if you roll a double skull/bothdown that is not rerolled. The chance after a reroll is about 1/81, which is very manageable.
Block helps, by making the turnover chance 1/1296 per block (i.e. ridiculously low, if you don't HAVE to down the opponent), but in general you're fine with 1-2 1/81 rolls per turn anyway, when elves have to rely on multiple 1/36 dodges per turn in comparison.
That's a very dangerous reasoning IMO! An Ulf without block is a definite liability. I always think twice before throwing 2-die blocks without block, even moreso if frenzy is involved.
