Skaven vs Dark Elves mid-high TV, skaven tactics

[Porkus_Maximus]

I'm playing Skaven in Cyanide's perpetual league using matchmaking, so I have no control over what race I play against although TV match-ups are often fairly even. I figured that my biggest problem approaching 200TV would be multitude of dwarf/orc teams just waiting to smash my team into oblivion as soon as my luck turns sour. However, I've always felt reasonably confident that I can still beat these teams with superior ball handling etc. as long as I have enough positional players left on the pitch. Against Dark Elves, I'm not so confident and I'm struggling to see where my advantages in this match up are.


Main problems I encounter:

AG3 on majority of the team means that gutter runners are the only players to consistently use their MA advantage. Realistically the dark elves are far more manoeuvrable as a whole with AG4 and agility access. Out positioning a DE team with Skaven feels like an exercise in futility. With AG4 and agility access, the Dark Elves ability to position players exactly where they want them allows them to out-bash quite effectively, especially against under developed linerats. Having guard on stormvirmin and the RO helps but they can't be everywhere.

Basically Dark Elves are bashing my team to dust while still maintaining the forward momentum to keep relatively even in the TD race. The game reaches a point (usually around turns 11-13 where I don't have enough players and it's a 2 turn TD or bust when on offence. The risks that need to be taken increase progressively until either a mistake or bad dice turn the ball over and the DEs swoop in on it for an easy steal. This is usually the point of no return on the slippery slope.

Here is my current team lineup. Skills in brackets () are skills I plan to take next. Injuries in bold. GR = Gutter Runner, SV = Stormvirmin, LR = Linerat, RO = Rat Ogre, TH = Thrower.


GR: +MA, +ST, Horns (wrestle)
GR: +MA, Block (sidestep)
GR : Wrestle, tackle (dauntless)
GR: Block, sidestep, diving tackle -AV (????)
SV: +AG, guard (mighty blow)
SV: Guard, mighty blow (tackle) [2spp from skill up]
LR: Kick, block (fend)
LR: Wrestle, tackle -MA (fend)
LR: Block (tackle) [1spp from skill up]
LR: Block (tackle)
LR: No skills (wrestle) [1spp from skill up]
LR: No skills (wrestle)
RO: Guard (stand firm) -AG, miss next game [1spp from skill up]
TH: No skills (leader)

Team has 3 cheerleaders, 4 rerolls, apothecary, 9 fan factor and 190k in the bank. 176TV

tl;dr version; DE out-bash me significantly, have paralleled ball handling and only minor deficiencies in speed . What do I do?

[Baduk]

play patiently? give them 1 block per turn, use foul play maybe?

[Funksultan]

Baduk's advice is concise, but sound.

The chinks in the DEs armor is their high player value. If you have opportunities to eliminate their players (a "killer" stormvermin, a RO that can crowd-surf someone, etc) you have to take them. Even a maximized foul is a good idea if you have a linerat or two that aren't crucial to your setup.

You don't wanna get into a fistfight, unless of course the numbers turn in your favor, in which case you'll wanna really try to put the screws to them while holding onto the ball.

I'm not sure of your playstyle, but I'm one of the Skaven coaches that never fields 4 GR, and sometimes only fields 2 at a time. Granted, your +str GR really makes bringing 4 viable. I just don't like giving up that much of a ST difference unless you know it's a bashy team that you're guaranteed to be running from the whole game.

Also, watch your opponents rerolls like a hawk. The DE team thrives on rerolls. AG4 makes many coaches overconfident (hey, ALL my guys can dodge, pickup, throw, catch!) and those rerolls are the bailout on a 1. When his rerolls are gone, try to put a little more pressure on him to force the TO.

Good luck, and hey, if the dice are with ya, everything will be fine.

[Porkus_Maximus]

I've had quite a few Skaven vs DE games recently and they have gone a lot smoother since I started playing more patiently. It also helps that a lot more of my linerats have wrestle, 2 GRs have wrackle and one of my stormvirmin has MB/PO/Tackle. Out of my last 4 games I've won 3 and drawn 1, and the only reason I got a draw was because I failed a 2+ hand-off with RR on turn 16. I could have walked the ball over the line but wanted to try to spread the SPP around.

[plasmoid]

Sounds like you don't need the advice anymore.
Just wanted to add that your MA10 GR can score in one turn if you're a little cunning with the chainpushes on the LOS.

Cheers
Martin