Slann for the Long Haul

[Spaceman_Spiff]

I've been thinking about starting a Slann team in my league, and I'd like some feedback on my plans to play them for at least 3 seasons (30-40 games depending on playoffs). Feel free to call me crazy or flame me relentlessly
Starting Roster:
10 Linemen
1 Kroxigor
5 Rerolls
Purchase Plans:
#1: Apothecary (obviously)
#2-5: Blitzer, blitzer, blitzer, blitzer.
#6+: Catchers and replacements

I bet i know what you're thinking, and it probably falls into the 'He's nuts not to take the catchers right away!' category. And you're right. I am nuts. But i also realize how many SPPs those catchers will hog in early development, resulting in linesmen and blitzers heavily relying on casualties and mvps.

The goal is to have quality linemen to back up my 'blitzers' as they develop, and lets face it, as soon as you get catchers they take over nearly all the ballhandling, and thus, they'll skill up on their own. And yes, I expect a few linemen to die in order to make room later.

It's obvious that i will have reduced chances of winning until i get catchers, and in a way, that's exactly the point. I`m quite happy with potentially sacrificing early wins in order to have SPPs spread out all over the team instead of mainly on the catchers. Also, I`m well aware of my abilities as a coach, and i'm well versed in the '6-3-3-8' statline, having played primarily chaos, amazons and humans. Granted, guard will be a little harder to come across, but early, it wont be too much different from my very successful all beastman start on my chaos team.

My opinions on the players:
Kroxigor
-Essential muscle for the team, and one of the best big guys in the game. Buy him as early as possible.
Linemen
-The core players. Eventually will be more like blitzers than the slann blitzers. General access is all they need, and having several with one or more skills is necessary and quite scary for any opponent.
Blitzers
-Indispensable players, essential to develop early, and essential for any high rated slann team. These players more than any other on this team need as many skills as they can get, and have the best skill choice options in the game. As late purchases they will fall behind and simply not be as useful as they could be.
Catchers
-The best rookie position on the team, but developing them past 2 skills seems to me as having a less return on effectiveness for TV. Having them early mean they will be the superstars of the team at the expense of the quality of all other players (except the krox). As late purchases, they are still highly effective, and really only require dodge to be great players and keep up with a developed team.

Anyways, thats the basics of it. I'll post more in response. Flame On!

[duttydave]

I can see your reasoning but I still think you need some Catchers on the starting roster. With no Block or ball handling skills you will burn all those re-rolls. The AG4 will make ball handling easier and assist on defence when sending them after the ball at kick off pressurising the offence from the word go.

I wouldn't bother with the Blitzers. They would be more of a TV bloat than their real worth. By the time you're ready to buy them you should've developed a couple of Linemen into ball hunter/killer roles.

At 1 Mil, I would take 8 Linemen, 4 Catchers and 4 Re-Rolls. The apothecary would be my first purchase. Then as long as you don't have to replace any Catchers I'd save for the Krox. I'd utilise Journeymen for any injured Linemen until you have more cash.

[Ullis]

I can't really get my head around the idea of "I don't mind losing to get something later" so this probably colours my response somewhat. I presume that you're not aiming at a gimmicky joke or themed team but want to maximise effectiveness over the long term.

Getting skills on the linemen really is useful, but only up to a point. I think that a few Wrestlers and a kicker plus Guarders from doubles plus the odd +AG or +ST feels quite enough for me. The slann team doesn't really need a ton of skills on the linos.

The Kroxigor is a really good big guy, but the slann team can work fine without it. Additionally, a kroxigor doesn't need a lot of skills so starting with it is not that important.

The blitzers are super expensive for what you get but new skills help a lot. All four with two skills each would add up to 600k of TV! I do think that they become worth their cost but my current thinking is that 2 (one as a killer and the other as mobile guarder with Block, Dodge, Guard and Side Step) should be enough. Especially for how much they cost.

Last, the catchers are really useful at handling the ball, both on offence and defence. That's why I'd take at least one if not two at the start. Would it be possible to set yourself a goal or a target of not scoring with the catchers unless its the only player that can score the TD? Offer to buy your opponent a drink for every catcher TD or something. I just think that even one catcher would help your linos get those TD's as it opens up passing and hand off opportunities that the linos cannot set up on themselves reliably, even with rerolls.

[Ullis]

How about:

2 Blitzers
1 Catcher
8 Linos

4 rerolls
20k banked for apoth (or used to upgrade a lino to catcher)

That roster would give you some more mobility and ball handling. Additionally it would give you a headstart on skilling up the blitzers but with only two blitzers it should leave enough room to utilise the linos too.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

I can see your reasoning but I still think you need some Catchers on the starting roster. With no Block or ball handling skills you will burn all those re-rolls. The AG4 will make ball handling easier and assist on defence when sending them after the ball at kick off pressurising the offence from the word go.

Ever see someone start a rookie chaos team and win most of their first dozen games? You know, that team with no skills and no ag4? Yeah. SAME CONCEPT. It's really not as hard as you think it is. In fact, the only real difference at the early game level is the 'team theme' of horns vs leap.
Catchers dont assist on defence. they're targets on defence. "Hey look i've got a 2dice hit with block on an av7 guy with no skills! sweet!" or "Hey my big guy gets 3 dice on that av7 guy! Sweet!"
And just because the linemen leap on a 3+ with no reroll and the catchers on a 2 with no reroll mean the linemen cant pressure the ball? Nonsense.

I wouldn't bother with the Blitzers. They would be more of a TV bloat than their real worth. By the time you're ready to buy them you should've developed a couple of Linemen into ball hunter/killer roles.

Okay, first off, you cant simply turn a linesman into a 'killer' role without at least one doubles, preferably 2 (mb/po). Also, where are they getting their spps from in the first place? mvps? Multiple casualties? All in order to get, at the very least, 16 spps? And a couple of them by the time you buy the blitzers?
Second off, why oh why would you not take the blitzers? Take a lineman and add 2 decent Agility skills and an MA+. This would translate to 9TV and 31 SPPs. On a blitzer this would translate to 5 TV and 0 SPPs.
MA+: Always useful.
Diving Tackle: When you have 4 of these on the field, and a prehensile tale, EVERYONE is watching where they dodge.
Jump Up: Believe it or not, this skill is decent, especially as a starting skill. Players DO get knocked down(or placed prone). It's inevitable. It DOES and WILL come in handy.
Hey look! G A S access!

At 1 Mil, I would take 8 Linemen, 4 Catchers and 4 Re-Rolls. The apothecary would be my first purchase. Then as long as you don't have to replace any Catchers I'd save for the Krox. I'd utilise Journeymen for any injured Linemen until you have more cash.

This starting roster is nothing but a short term winning strategy, which by the way, is exactly the OPPOSITE of what i'm trying to accomplish.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

I presume that you're not aiming at a gimmicky joke or themed team but want to maximise effectiveness over the long term.

Thats entirely the point. The league i play in is no joke. Seasons are 10 games plus finished by a KO tourney.There's two divisions, one for rookie teams only, and one for EVERYONE else. There are some nasty nasty bash teams and some nasty nasty finesse teams in there. I cant just waltz in there after a dozen games with a poorly made short term win strategy and hope to survive or win.

I like your starting roster and definitly take i into consideration. The only thing is that i really like the kroxigor too.

[Blammaham]

Good Points Spiffer! Never listen to ANYONE who says a player with GAS Access isn't worth his weight in gold! Human and Orc Blitzers are GREAT for a reason! Listen I've never played Slann but last season I took a long term veiw on my Chaos Dwarfs and was one of the better teams for it at the end missing on my last game by a bunch of lucky rolls by Khail and a pitch invation. The way BB is now you can and should build for the future, not thinking "well I'm gonna lose my first 5 games" . Any rookie team not called dwarves or Woodelves you'll have a good chance againsed and that is what matters. Keep your head above water till your a little skilled up then take off. Get your Apothecary asap though, you can't afford to have alot of early attrition.

[bouf]

The Slann Team is esentially a Skaven Remix.

You have a very mobile team, but they're all AG3. So to get something out of that mobility, you need to make that first 3+ Roll.
You have some Very Hard Working blitzers, but really they're not the focus of the team.
You have the Highest Mobility and greatest "Turn Over" players there are.

Whats the Difference?
The Slann can't sprint the same... but they do survive longer!
The Slann don't have Basic Skills... but they do have Great specialist skills!

Whats my point?
Would you build a Skaven team without any Runners/Blitzers but include a Ratogre?

Here is the Gimick...
Your blitzers are not Blitzers... They're "Marks". Don't build them as traditional Blitzers (no Strip Ball etc...)
I would develop one or two into Killers (Mighty Blow, Pile On, etc...)
The rest as Support, (Blodge, SS, Guard...)

The Catchers,
These guys are just awesome, Leaping into zones to pick up, dodge out, throw for a Cheeky TD.
Build one or two as "Throwers" (Sure Hands, Dodge, Pass/HMP, etc...)
Build the rest as guys who you're coing to throw to. (Blodge, SS, Pro/Catch)

Linemen,
Guard on Doubles (Leaping Guard is awesome!)
Otherwise, Wrestle, Fend, Dauntless
Maybe build a few as your Blitzers (Wrestle, Strip, Tackle)

The Krox is your Guarder...
Guard, Stand Firm, Break Tackle

Always kick as close as possible to your own team, Keep the pressure HIGH!
Don't be affraid to roll dice, If the slann team has a failing point, it's that they're roll heavy.
On D, always get a catcher in his zone (it's always funny to count the squares from him to the endzone! Head games FTW) This will keep the pressure up!
Remember that you're Diving Catch is a little NoS You catch "in a zone" on a 2+

On offecne you're the best cage team going! (Yes even better than Dwarves!) so get your cage in his zone and get that 2nd turn TD

You can have a look at my team if that helps
http://www.brisbane.bloodbowlleague.com ... p=ro&t=bog

[DoubleSkulls]

I think prior to LRB5 it was easy to plan for very long haul teams because there effectively was no upper limit.

However in LRB5 teams peak much sooner and their stable level isn't as high. That means for many teams there really isn't any point maxing out rerolls and linemen at the start (or those slow to skill up) since all that means is that your positionals are poorly developed compared to the rest of the team. Also money isn't an issue for many teams - so really you can get the team you want.

So that sort of means I think you are better off starting with an ideal 2250 or 2500 team and then working out what players, rerolls etc you need and the best path to that. I'm too lazy to do it myself by I suspect that means you can start with a more rounded team now and win more games on your way to a finished team.

[Carnis]

Looks like a good plan to me tbh. You get a team which blitzes with the krox and ballcarries with the linemen. When your team advances and you get a bunch of wrestle/block in you can strip down some of those rerolls.

All that bouf said is true. Slann are skaven in heavy-armor. And that shows in them losing 2 movement (which is HUGE), dodge on the catchers and their blitzers (who start shining at 31 SPPs).

The biggest problem with the slann team is the random nature of SPP gain on the linesmen. Your plan would tackle that. I don't suggest getting all 4 blitzers though, but that's just my opinion. If you could build a slann team with 4 blodge/ss/guards sprinkled with mb/po you'll probably win a lot of games, it's the getting there that's the problem.

Another problem that I saw with my slann was 2nd and especially 3rd skills on linesmen. After Wrestle/Tackle there really is only kick, fend, dauntless, frenzy and maybe strip ball. Most of these skills have poor synergies with each other though.

[Craigtw]

..... The AG4 will make ball handling easier and assist on defence when sending them after the ball at kick off pressurising the offence from the word go.

...Catchers dont assist on defence. they're targets on defence. "Hey look i've got a 2dice hit with block on an av7 guy with no skills! sweet!" or "Hey my big guy gets 3 dice on that av7 guy! Sweet!"
And just because the linemen leap on a 3+ with no reroll and the catchers on a 2 with no reroll mean the linemen cant pressure the ball? Nonsense.

The catchers are not only able to leap on a 2+ butthey can pick up the ball in an empty square on a 2+, and move an extra square.

For backfield pressure, you may have to see it for yourself to really appreciate it, but the catchers are really useful in this capacity.

Just because they have S2, doesn't mean that they are all going to get hit. You probably won't be leaving them in TZs, and if the opponent does decide to blitz them, then that is a blitz that is not moving their cage further downfield.

Can linemen do the job? Sure, but not nearly as well. But to say that catchers don't assist on defence is completely not true.

[MeatLoafX]

Just my very limited opinion:
Your build does help with the problem of skill hogging by catchers. However, I do feel they are useful on defense. You'll may go the route I plan on which is getting 1 or 2 wrestle/strip ball type linos. Then you may want a catcher who can get in and get that loose ball easier and run off or toss it away. Catchers are useful on defense just as gutter runners are useful on defense - getting loose balls and mobile assists.

I agree with bouf that they are sort of like Skaven and with Skaven, I've found that the only way I can avoid being ground into paste is to play aggressive defense.

You could use some catchers and then adjust your game plan so that you score with your linos. Catchers get the ball to the linos who score. It will be slow, but I think those catchers - at least 2 - would potentially help with your plan of getting skilled linos.

A Krox/2 catcher/4RR/8 lino team would leave you with one less RR, but still a little cash banked.

I've considered a 5 RR/4 catcher start, but I think I like the Krox too much.

Either way, let us know how it turns out - especially the early game.

[Warpstone]

Spiff, by all means start with a Krox. You will need an experienced big guy when you advance divisions. However, you should start with 1 catcher. I understand you want to slowbuild, but it's much easier to slowbuild when you're winning or drawing versus losing handily.

The catcher gives you a ball handler and play maker who will save you atleast 1 reroll per half. More importantly, I think your chances of scoring go up drastically with him on the pitch. I agree that you want your linefrogs to get the TDs and make plays. But, without the catcher, it gets a lot harder to get them the ball in the first place. This could lead to you simply falling behind in the rookie season and then being uncompetitive in B-League because you're perpetually under skilled

[someone2040]

Spiff, by all means start with a Krox. You will need an experienced big guy when you advance divisions. However, you should start with 1 catcher. I understand you want to slowbuild, but it's much easier to slowbuild when you're winning or drawing versus losing handily.

The catcher gives you a ball handler and play maker who will save you atleast 1 reroll per half. More importantly, I think your chances of scoring go up drastically with him on the pitch. I agree that you want your linefrogs to get the TDs and make plays. But, without the catcher, it gets a lot harder to get them the ball in the first place. This could lead to you simply falling behind in the rookie season and then being uncompetitive in B-League because you're perpetually under skilled

He also gives the linemen someone slightly easier to pass to when milking those passing spp's. We've all been there, turn 8/16, receiving, can't score naturally, what's left? Passing the ball and beating on the 3 poor saps on the line of scrimmage.