Offensive Tactics - Overcoming the 3-4-4 defense

[Carnis]

Gimli:
One player with frenzy kills that defence totally. Take down the LOS, then secure the ball. Then take down one of the sideliners with a frenzy blitz. If you still havent turned over, foul one of the LOS players that didn't get stunned or worse.

Humans don't really count as a finesse team, they are average in everything, so you have no problems breaking a hole on turn 3 or 4 having got a freebie "kill" with the turn1 surf. Also, feel free to foul away.

Mattslager's Ziggurat is not the standard 3-4-4 you see in a lot of games (in FUMBBL, and elsewhere). In theory Matt's zig is more vulnernable to a crowdsurf on turn1, as you don't need a dodge to get side-by-side with his frenzy-prone players. It's hard to get 2x push +push/pow with 2die though (26% without using a reroll, ie. well worth it).

Matt's zig thus needs a lot of sidesteppers.. Or Stand firm.

Code: Select all

Matt's Zig:
-- -- -- --|-- -- LL LL LL -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- VV --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- VV -- --
-- -- -- --|-- LL -- -- -- LL --|-- -- -- --
-- LL -- --|LL -- -- -- -- -- LL|-- -- LL --

V= vulnernable to a 2-push + push/pow crowdsurf.

Trying the crowdpush:
FR = Frenzier.
BB = Blocker, who sends VV player to the crowd.
AA = Assist
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- BB --
-- -- -- --|-- -- LL LL LL -- --|-- AA -- --
-- -- VV --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|FR VV -- --
-- -- -- --|-- LL -- -- -- LL --|-- -- -- --
-- LL -- --|LL -- -- -- -- -- LL|-- -- LL --

Standard Zig (no obvious weakness):
-- -- -- --|-- -- LL LL LL -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- LL --|-- LL -- -- -- LL --|-- LL -- --
-- LL -- --|LL -- -- -- -- -- LL|-- -- LL --

[mattgslater]

Good point. I normally put the flankers back an extra square for that purpose: I designed the flank-forward version for straight rookie play against an Orc team. I knew they didn't have any Frenzy, and moreover that they'd try to make a hole up the middle.

Here's the traditional Zig in Play-Creator.

[mattgslater]

Actually, that flank-forward defense is spectacularly vulnerable to Frenzy: a Frenzy blitz could take out either flanker or either winger, as the flanker must either be three squares back, or on a parallel with (or behind) a midfielder either on the chalk line (the 3 column) or just inside (the 2 column). To be safe from Frenzy, the winger must form the back part of a trap wedge with the flanker, or he can be blitzed from the diagonal.

But it's a Ziggurat. You asked for a Ziggurat, and that's the only one I'd saved in Play-Creator.

[Setomidor]

Thanks a lot! The Ziggurat seems very close to a setup that I fancy when playing Lizardmen:

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|-- -- SA KR SA -- --|-- -- -- --
... (Insert extra lines here depending on opponents movement)
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- SA --|-- SA -- -- -- SA --|-- SA -- --
-- -- -- SK|SK -- -- -- -- -- SK|SK -- -- --

You will always field at least 4 skinks, and the above set-up makes it harder for your opponent to set up a first turn blitz targetting either of your skinks. I usually set this up deep enough to make sure that the opponent has to make at least one (preferrably two) GFIs in order to blitz either of the skinks from the back, and the above example without extra lines in between requires 7 steps in order to hit a Skink. If the opponent still goes for it, he will hopefully be out of position compared to the rest of his team and very exposed to a gang foul / crowd push.

The flank-forward version is also quite vulnerable to Quick-snaps, but it is a nice concept.

About getting a Frenzy player to open up defenses like this, I though a bit more about it and figured that there are some standard scenarios that can make this fail:

• You roll a Both-down result, canceling out Frenzy and negating the Push. Even worse, you do it against someone with Wrestle and your assisting players end up exposed to a counter blitz.
• The opponent has Fend or Stand Firm, canceling out the follow-up / push.
• The opponent has Side-step (which is quite unlikely on Bashing teams)

Oh I wish there was a skill that would help at least in the first two cases...

[mattgslater]

With Lizardmen, I kind of like that defense, particularly against slow teams. It doesn't seal opponents out, but it makes it difficult to build a deep cage.