Principles of Defence

[Carnis]

I thought norse had a nice advantage towards softer enemies. You have plenty of bash to get rid of them... at least the av 7 types. This advantage is ofcourse decreasing over time as most others get block/wrestle.

The advantage further takes a nosedive as the elves get near teamwide blodge/sidestep type builds going, making frenzy almost into a negaskill. Norse could build against that by using tackle on lineman and pushing MB+PO action. However you'll get raped if you play dwarves like that. I keep playing different varients anyway, but I think Norse drop down to at least a tier 2 team once you get to spiralling expense range.

*Offtopic*

Regarding norse.. Sunnyside, why don't you flip over to playing in FUMBBL Fantasy Football division for some time (5-15 games) & I'll check your replays if there's anything obvious to note. The new client is GREAT, and you dont need to download it or install it or anything and the controls are intuitive (click with your mouse -> player action options bar opens). I have so far played 12 games with my norse and only lost 2 (mostly below 1600 rating, though). Getting games is covered in fumbbl-helps, but even if you arent up to using IRC you can get games by adding to gamefinder & private messaging players through the sitemenus. Also, if you put your MB/PO on your ulfwereners, it's less likely you'll have trouble with sidestep. The berzerkers/Blitzers are very suspectable players, totally overpriced, but kind of necessary due to S-access.

What I wanted to add about Norse was, I'm starting to really love lineman FEND. Basicly with some block/fend linos you can usually do the following:

1) Sacrifice them to the LOS (after all, they didnt roll doubles ;P), most players will not be bothered with sideline-blocking and you'll usually get some/most of them free of TZs (after the armorcheck/push, ofc).
2) Use them to commit some players of your choosing out of action (basicly the low AG, high str players you put a solo fend guy next to are effectively taken root unless if they want to waste a blitz).
3) Allow you to play a more spread out game, elvenlike almost, where your MB/PO guys hunt, your linos spread & disperse minimizing guard.
4) Cancel out piling on, this is huge on the LOS actually.

I think if you have newest java installed, you can even look up replays without having a fumbbl account.

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match ... id=3059015

I dont think you should go to SE range before you have 15 players, adequate killers (Ulfs, snowtroll), a mixture of guard (linos & zerks), 3-5 Fend linesmen and definitely 1-2 Blodge/Fend/SS runners. I like to build the players one at a time, when I'm happy with where my current players are I hire new ones and start feeding them touchdowns. Currently working on my 2nd blitzer, as the old one just died to an accidentally wasted apothecary in a recent chaos game .

*Offtopic ends*

[sunnyside]

Yeah, we're offtopic with the Norse stuff mostly.

Anyway I don't have problems in the lower TVs. I play in MBBL a play by e-mail league(if I had time for a full length game all at one time I'd go to my local game store). I'm exulthwe, and if you for some reason wanted to, you could look at all my teams and every game.

However I don't have a problem at lower TVs. Actually despite it being my first season I won a bowl game with a team of mine. However as the TV goes up I feel the difficulty rise. I don't think it's that bad until you get into the spiralling expenses range where your opponent starts really fleshing out their teams and starts getting some of those third skills.

I agree to varying degrees with the stratigic stuff you mentioned though, and agree fend is a good default skill for Norse linemen.

[mattgslater]

That sounds like the Norse power-curve to me.

[mattgslater]

The more I think about it, the more I think we might not be so off-topic after all. The D-line is 3/11 of your defensive formation, after all. Keeping them on the pitch and taking the relevant skills is quite important. Also, the type of defensive strategy you take might depend heavily on the way you've skilled your players.

So this isn't off-topic; it's a specific case. Like defending against chain teams, on the last page. I think this is a common issue on very broad threads: what's the difference between "application" and "thread-jacking"?

[sunnyside]

Actually to focus the discussion. I'm trying to decide what's the best option for the D line.

The "default" seems to be throwing cheap expendable bodies there (which with Norse includes non doubles throwing one skill linemen).

Some teams go "strong" in the rare instances they think they can avoid taking the customary hits.

However I'm wondering if it might not be a good idea to put some quality on the line. When playing critical games I've been known to throw blodge sidestep runners on the D-line, and so far it's worked out quite well actually. But I'm weighing that against losing those players now and then

[mattgslater]

I build three of my first four Line-Elves for D-line duty. Side Step, Dodge, Wrestle in that order. The theory is that once a guy gets a skill he goes to the line, freeing up a rookie player for recovery/scoring duty. Once all three guys on the D-line have Side Step, it's almost impossible to open a hole up the middle, which means the offense absolutely must cage at or behind the line. This guarantees you the opportunity to turn any early takeaway into a TD. Scoring repeatedly on D, in turn, gives you free skills, in an accelerating spiral.

For Orcs, I make a point of scoring with BOBs to get them up, and I put specific skills in specific spots on both sides of the ball. I've found that dominating the LOS forces offenses to get creative, which is often slang for "do dumb things." But dominating the LOS from defense takes a pretty potent line, with more than just Block and Guard.

For Norse, I'm not so sure. Fend is no Side Step, but Block/Fend isn't bad. Seeing as you don't have an overwhelming need for lots of positionals, you can play for development like an elf team (except the Snow Troll). But your lack of two-category access and the fact that you don't have to spend a skill on Block means that you hit the point of diminishing returns on line skills right away. AV7 doesn't help, either. Skaven have this issue, too.