AG5 elf thrower

[Smurf]

Pro Elves suffer from chronic AV7 with only MA6. Attrition can bite them badly, their Catchers are good but the AV7 can cut them down and their Blitzers shine slightly with AV8.

When it comes to the rough play of BB the team is more like WE elves and the grind can hurt. DE have good armour and low speed with some nifty players, HE also have good armour and good skills to perform. But both PE and WE have a problem with attritional aspect of the game.

[Carnis]

Which is why dodge/block are better/more generic upgrades for a PE team, which is also why I wasnt so sure deep passing is the problem as far as atrition is .

[mattgslater]

I think a compromise route might be even better. Dodge/Safe Throw, perhaps. It's easy to game to keep this guy's jersey dry on offense; just get rid of the ball when your keep-away game breaks down. But it's not reasonable to think you'll be able to keep him entirely off the pitch on defense. Even if you build him as an offensive specialist, he will see action on both sides of the ball, so a survival skill like Dodge can go a long way.

[Smurf]

Elf games tend to devlope strong offense and defence, you have to switch the players around with each drive.

You play a certain way to keep your good players away from danger.

[mattgslater]

Okay, but if you're playing really well, you'll play defense a whole lot more than offense. You'll suffer some damage, and you'll have to put this guy out. Mostly you'll be able to scheme to protect him.

One way to keep players unhurt is to be able to stall and remain disengaged, thereby drawing out your offensive drives, and reducing the number of times you have to put up three on the line. A dedicated passer sure makes this a lot easier. Another way to keep players unhurt is to load them up on protective skills. In this guy's case, Dodge is the clear winner for protective value, because its secondary application also has obvious utility.

[Smurf]

Yeah but I have one of the most violent Elf teams in our league too. I think it will be surpassed by a new up and coming dark elf team with a good skilled up assassins. Apart from that they are generally a tough bunch and I probably not going to enjoy the game between Cyder City and the Fairy-Nuffs. And somewhere in the future, Pensee has a rematch on to whup me again, they have a second S4 player!

[mattgslater]

Yeah, but a good passer makes it easier to stall.

I totally agree on Safe Throw vs. Accurate. At AG5 (or even AG4/NOS), it's not even remotely close. Safe Throw, hands down.

[narg]

Thanks for all the replies! Good thread...

It's an elf, safe guard him. Bring him on only offensive drives. AG5 next safe throw, accurate and wait for strong arm.

Well I don't know how it's going for pro-elves in your leagues but in mine most pro-elf teams have permanent Journeymen; at the moment I myself have only ten players and I saw on internet that a Hall of Fame pro-elf team that had played about three hundred games had only ten players, so this seems to be a permanent issue for pro-elves.

In theory and with most teams I would agree with building a pure thrower (with sure hands - pass - accurate - strong arm - safe throw you name it) and keep him on the bench in defence; but in real life I don't really have a choice; with this team I tend to win my games but to end them with only three or four players on the pitch.

I agree that with a pure thrower you have a nearly guaranteed touchdown on offense, but if you spend fifteen turns on defense and can't stop the opposition then you still lose 2-1, so even with a 100% chance of scoring on attack you can still lose. People are talking about psychology but I'm not sure such a team would scare me; a regular orc team for example could beat that without too much hassle as long as they have a good ball protection.

I'm not sure pro elves need to develop a longpasser though, they already have a brutal offence out of the box.

I'm not very experienced with elves but so far I'd agree with Carnis.

Pro Elves suffer from chronic AV7 with only MA6. Attrition can bite them badly, their Catchers are good but the AV7 can cut them down and their Blitzers shine slightly with AV8.

I agree with that as well, which is why I don't understand Smurf's advice on skill selection.

So far and based on the answers I'm opting for Dodge - Block - Sure Throw or maybe Dodge - Sure Throw - Block.

[mattgslater]

That all makes sense to me, Narg. If you're fielding permanent Journeymen, then at least 70% of your standard-roll skill selections should go to Dodge and Side Step, with the rest going to Block/Wrestle and toolbox skills (early on, Wrestle is just a prime toolbox skill; Block is at best a quality #3 on most P-Elves).

I've only played one season of Pro Elves, but I went undefeated (against suspect competition). I used one Journeyman, once, in that season. Some of that was luck (I took one fatality in my first six games), some of it was early skills on line elves preventing chain-blocking and line-chains, and keeping fields (and drives) short. If I hadn't skilled four linos in two matches (Kick, 3x SS), I probably would have taken twice as many casualties. The first match was brutal, and my butt was saved by starting an Apoth and getting BH'es instead of deaths. After that, nobody could get through, and the expensive guys took no damage (except the Blitzers, but if you lose one, money can still buy you luv; it's the Catchers who are hard to replace).

[Smurf]

I think that with AV7 you cannot play upfront blocking. Therefore you need expertise in quick TDs and perfecting that is a discipline.

Selective blocking is required and taking the blocking game can be played on opportunity.

The alternative is evey team has block, more block and block on everything. Of course this works until we arrive with wrestle.

[mattgslater]

Quick TDs mean frequent defensive setups. That's why Side Step is so powerful. Without it, your oppo just pushes your DLs down the line until they go down, and eventually you run out of men.

[Smeborg]

I have played a couple of seasons with Pro-Elves, including one where they won the league against good competition.

I did not worry unduly about defensive skills. The team starts with 2 outstanding defensive players (the Blitzers).

Instead, I relied on counter-attacking the ball, developing all the Catchers for this purpose (Dodge, Wrestle, Tackle).

The team was usually 2 or more TDs ahead before they needed to worry about loss of players. It takes a while (6-8 games) to get above 11 players, but after that I found them generally OK for roster depth.

[mattgslater]

My experience wasn't all that different. One thing I've learned is that if you have 2 TRRs and 2+ Catchers on the pitch, you can scheme to score with anybody in 2 turns. So, whoever needs the SPP gets the TD. By game 4, my only unskilled player was the Catcher I'd hired.

[Ullis]

Well I don't know how it's going for pro-elves in your leagues but in mine most pro-elf teams have permanent Journeymen;

I fully agree with this. To top it off an AG5 player is an amazing asset on defence (and offence too obviously) as he is so amazingly mobile once he gets Dodge or Leap. He can pick up balls in TZ's, place assists in icky positions and run through screens. As matt pointed out, if you play well you only get to play one offensive drive in a game.

[mattgslater]

That doesn't really alter his skill progression. Whether he's playing a passing fullback role (offense) or a ball-hawk safety (defense), the tasks are the same. Protect the player with space or structure, pick up or catch the ball, and make passes, sometimes at penalties or into coverage. What do you need for the former? Catch, Dodge, Safe Throw, Accurate. What do you need for the latter? Sure Hands, Dodge, Safe Throw, Accurate. Hmmm... I wonder if there's a common track?