Skill Progression for +ST High Elf Blitzer

[Asperon Thorn]

Most importantly. (And Matt I am surprised you missed this.)

It is good for the situation in which you cannot get a 1 on 1 vs the ball carrier and the ball carrier has an assist from a team mate. It's a one die block, and you can still spring the ball if you can't get him down.

Asperon Thorn

[mattgslater]

Most importantly. (And Matt I am surprised you missed this.)

It is good for the situation in which you cannot get a 1 on 1 vs the ball carrier and the ball carrier has an assist from a team mate. It's a one die block, and you can still spring the ball if you can't get him down.

Asperon Thorn

Yeah, I figured that was true whether or not you gave him Strip Ball. 2d vs. 1d vs. 1/2d doesn't change the odds of a push against a Block opponent (7+5 = 6+6 = 5+7). The only time it matters is if your odds of success approach 1, as in the case of 2d. Or against Dodge, where it has direct, viable competition in Tackle.

That does raise a point. Tackle is not a sacker skill on this guy. If you mean to hit the carrier, get a skill to get you there (Leap) or get Strip with your fifth skill. If you mean to hold space and cover breakaways, then Tackle makes more sense. Note that the former is more important for High Elves than the latter, because failed cagebreaks are potential team-killers. That said, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Either way, Side Step after Frenzy. You can't have enough power skills.

[TuernRedvenom]

Aah, one of my pet peeves. Taking Strip Ball on a STR 4+ player. Especially on elf teams. Especially on frenzy players. IMO it's almost always sub-optimal and equivalent to putting Kick on a wardancer.

What is Strip Ball good at? It is good at getting a ball loose from an opponent that is hard to knock down. Either due to the carrier having blodge or because you can't get 2 die on it.

A str 4 player will be able to get 2 die on most players in the open. In this case it's better to take Tackle and Frenzy to put that player on his ass instead. This is even better then stripping: you get to make an armour roll and the TZ is completely removed.

If you can only get 1 die it will likely be because things are in a tight scrum/cage situation. In this case it's a bit better (it's actually a tiny bit worse at getting the ball loose, but it is also considerably less likely to cause a turnover) then a str 3 Wrestle/Strip Ball player blitzing half die. Also note that it's pretty likely you don't want to charge in with a frenzy player in these situations as the second block is likely to be half-die. Besides that these situations are also very risky for the blitzing player reducing their lifespan considerably. Do you really want to send your best player into these risky situations when a bog standard catcher/lineman with wrestle/strip ball can do it almost equally well?

If you can't get 1 die the bog standard Wrestle/Strip Ball player does the job considerably better.

Finally, and most importantly, why would you give Strip Ball to your best player when it can be completely nullified by a single general skill most teams will take and some teams even start with? In time, that's one skill slot on your best player wasted against almost every team, while you really want the skills on this guy to make a difference!

Like NoS on a Wood Elf catcher (one of my other pet peeves), it certainly has its value. But the added value isn't nearly enough to justify the costs IMO.

[mattgslater]

We're talking about the end of the line, you know? ST4, Dodge, Frenzy, SS, and then one at 76 SPP.

Me, almost every game I've ever lost would have gone my way had some 2d hit on a ball-carrier knocked the ball loose. So at the end of the track, this guy seems to be the exception.

Part of what I'm saying is this:
ST4+SB=bad. Frenzy+SB=bad. ST4+Frenzy+SB=better, because it lets you do things you can't do without all three parts. People get so hidebound into thinking about what a skill is for that they often miss good combos just because they're hard to get.

Personally, I hate Strip Ball, because a) I take pride in my ability to engineer 2d hits anywhere with almost any team, and b) Strip Ball is spectacularly easy to neutralize. But it's a #5 skill, and it's a combo gimmick that almost never comes up. So, given that the competition is Leap and Tackle, and this guy's expensive for a Leaper, it seems to me a fair vanity option.

[TuernRedvenom]

ST4 + Frenzy + SB is better but still pretty bad compared to the alternatives IMO.

Elves can take so many usefull skills even the end of the line skills can add real value. SB just doesn't do that IMO. Especially not as a 5th pick when you can be almost sure everyone has picked up SH. If you want to take SB take it early.

Personally I'd go after SS: Tackle and then Diving Tackle. Although Leap is great too.

[mattgslater]

We're way ahead of ourselves, you know. Depending on your opinion of +AV on such a player (not normally a great idea, but this is the place), his chances of getting through three more SP rolls without doubling or statting is a mere 2197/5832 (if you'd take MA/AV) or 27/64 (if you wouldn't).