Vamps vs elves

[dines]

Hi guys, I'm giving vamps a go in an upcoming tt league and are currently trying them out on fumbbl. They are good fun and with some luck they seem to being able to hold their own against slower races with their hypno gazing and st4, ag4 blodge ball carrier. But what to do against the strip balling, leaping scum of elves/skaven?
The classic bash style defense against that is a sure hands ball carrier in a guard cage but guard is a long way off and sure hands on a vamp seems a waste and would also be a choice after at least blodge... Giving a thrall sure hands could be an option, but prefer to keep them as blood bags and fodder rather than trying to skill them up.
Creating a big monster cage making the leap difficult is also a problem with unreliable vamps and thralls that are unable to reposition.

So what do you do in such a matchup?

[Hitonagashi]

Easy way:

Don't stall. You have AG 4 and gaze, with a handoff to a vamp, scoring is relatively easy for you.

In Elfball, one big thing that threw me, moving into it, is when you have 2 teams built purely around defense, it's a lot easier to defend sometimes than attack.

If you are playing with vamps, you've got large advantages, namely, you can shut down passing offenses/handoff plays with gaze pretty much instantly. It means they need to run the ball against you, and when they form the cage, that's when you have them.

Hard way:
Be absolutely perfect in your positioning. Stalling against elves with no sure hands/guard is ruddy hard...but possible. Two layered cages (so they can't bounce in, and when they do, it's hard to retrieve the ball) are vital. If you get a man advantage, exploit it ruthlessly. Make sure you have a tackle vamp, and a ss/dt one won't hurt either.

Be prepared to lose the ball, so always include a "where will this ball bounce to, and where do I retrieve it next turn" factor in your plans.

Both ways:
Don't roll 1's.

[RogueThirteen]

Unless they have a STR4 Leaping Strip Baller, you really don't need Guard in your cage corners. If they jump into your cage and throw a block at your vamp, it's already going to be 2-die your choice. And as long as your vamp has block, there's a 5-in-9 chance they won't strip you. Sure Hands would increase that even moreso, but odds are already in your favor.

[dode74]

One leaper with guard and one with strip ball will 1d you and free the ball 4 in 6 (5 in 6 if they have wrestle, more with frenzy - think Dark Elves) unless you have some guard.

[Smurf]

My method vs Elves or Skaven is pick off the lynch pins the go to players relied upon.

Target Throwers when and where ever.
Target Catchers.
If you have good odds, go for their blitzers.

Close down the player rerolls.

[dines]

Thx for the good advice Hito, Think I'll take a look at a quicker offense.

Rogue/Dode> Yeah I guess if there is only one leaper with strip ball, a block vamp might be ok, but if wrestle or a leaping guard is thrown into play it's really uphill to keep hold of the ball.

Smurf> The odds of taking specific players out with vamps (tackle is at best the second skill on one vamp and no early mb) is not something to count on imo. And even if I'd get to develop a block, tackle, mb vamp after 10-15+ games I'd much prefer to target their strip ball blitzer, who's the biggest threat to my own offense.

[Hitonagashi]

If you want to watch an expert on FUMBBL, dig up some of Tarabaralla's vamp replays. He's brilliant with them, and he's taken vamp teams pretty far in majors repeatedly.