8 games in and I think I need a tweek to my vamp tactics

[TheDoc]

Hi all,

As some of you may have seen I have decided to take Vamps the HDWSBBL league this year. I have played 8 games now with a TV1000 (3 vamps, 8 thrall 5RR start) and had a 2 wins, 4 draws, 2 loss. Both losses were to a Chaos and Dwarf team, wins were vs Humans and pro-elves. The other teams played Norse x2, skaven, amazons.

What I have learnt
(1) Vamps don't bash. They have str 4 but the team don't bash. They just can't stand toe to toe with anyone apart from AV7 non-skilled wimps and even then it is a tough job.

(2) Vamps are slow. MA6 is not great and you can't over commit to anything.

(3) You can't do anything if your Vamps are spread out. Thralls are ok but you need vamps to group up to achieve a break through in your opponents defense.

(4) Defense is tough. I can't seem to defend well. I struggle to keep my opponent out and can't prevent a score. The wins I have had have been 2-1.

(5) Never trust a thrall to pick up the ball! You are asking for trouble!

What I am struggling with
(1) Lack of skills! This makes the situation go from bad to worse. I find myself eating RRs just doing the basic of things.

(2) Defending. How do you defend with players who are so unreliable?

(3) Planning. Now I am not a bad coach and can usually get my way through matches but I can't get my head around planning with this team. One minute you think right a block here, a dodge here and I am away. Next thing you know is that the plan has gone to hell and you are looking at a bad situation. How do people make plays with these guys?

(4) Frustration. Damned bloody pointy eared superhuman freaks are great on minute then awful the next. I took 3 thralls off in one turn due to blood lust! Then the damned vamps didn't do what they were meant to! ARRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!

My question is what do other vamp coaches do to make the team tick? Are there any sure fire set-ups, techniques, plans that work to dampen down the problems I have with the team? Or is it always a think on your feet do your best and see what happens game?

All comments are welcome on how to get your vamps doing what they are meant to.

Thanks

[nazgob]

See, I find defence easier than offence.

i'm not exceptionally experienced with vamps, but basically, I use vampires to gaze a path to the ball, then blitz it free asap.

otherwise, just do the step off defence to bide my time.

what skills do you use?

[spubbbba]

I don’t see a 2/4/2 record with vamps as that bad seeing as how all your opponents were tier 1 teams.

I know many coaches concentrate the skills on the vamps to keep TV low. You may have a few with block/wrestle and 1 with sure hands or dp. Few get more than 2 skills unless they get stats or doubles.

What skills do you give the vamps? There are many competing builds and a fair bit of discussion as to whether pro is worth taking on the vamps early on or not.

Dodge is a common 1st choice and then either block or wrestle. Some make ball hunting vamps with wrestle, tackle, strip ball and possibly leap and others make killers with block, MB, PO and tackle.

You really are spoilt for choice with vamps and there are too many good skills to give them. Stat increases are gold on vamps with +AG rivalling +ST as the best choice since it helps with gaze and you can give him leap too.

[TheDoc]

See, I find defence easier than offence.

i'm not exceptionally experienced with vamps, but basically, I use vampires to gaze a path to the ball, then blitz it free asap.

otherwise, just do the step off defence to bide my time.

what skills do you use?

I currently are using them as a TV1000 so no skills. The skill I try and use the most is Hypno gaze. I am struggling though to get it to be really effective. I know the theory about gazing a cage corner and hitting the ball but I haven't used it for that yet. I have used it against passing teams to stop receivers.

When the Vamps skill up I will be looking to get dodge on 2 of them initially and block on the other. Thralls will vary due to job but some will have wrestle, fend, or tackle, stripball, etc.

The Vamps will be varied as well to do different roles but I think Dodge is a good start point for them.

[Drool_bucket]

at TV 1000 vamps are about a bad a team as you can get. no starting "BB" skills like Block or Dodge and no ball handling aside from a few slowish AG4 players. IMO Ogres and Vamps scrap the barrel out of the gate, even Flings and Gobboes are better teams.

plus you have negatraits and god awful linemen that your own star players pick on.

so a 2-4-2 record is not to be considered bad.

I am in agreement with others. Defense is a lot easier because of Hypnogaze. Offense is tough with limited options and overall slower team speed.

One point I do disagree with is that I like my Vampire teams to function in space. spreading out the opponent make both your natural high stats and Hypnogaze really start to shine. Plus, with no committed ball carriers/scorers, you can adjust to the opponent's defense and push in TDs at weak spots, not just where you are driving towards.

I, too, never handle the ball, unless desperate, with a Thrall. (unless he's got 5 SPP, then he's tossing a pass to Vamp) But don't forget that on defense, a Thrall with a TRR can be a dangerous player. Especially when you have a few extras Thralls sitting about.

I am a fan of the 2 Vamp, 10 Thrall, 5 RR start. 3/8/5 isn't bad, but a little bad luck and the team takes longer to recover.

I am also of the theory of rarely do I re-roll BL unless I am getting short on Thralls or simply have to RR to score... having a vamp leave the pitch at the end of one of your turns is not always the worst thing that could happen to you.

As for builds, I am a Dodge then Block on every Vamp. When you have 3-4 of those players on your team playing gets a lot easier. A lot. Then I have a tendency to default to two types of skills. Very generic, "solid" BB choices like Guard, Sidestep/Standfirm and some of the built in RR skills, like Sure Feet (makes Vamps nice and fast) and Sure Hands, if just for Strip Ball protection.

I also like one "Hunter" Vamp with Tackle and Mighty Blow. Frenzy is also a consideration, but be aware where you'll end up if you BL out and a Thrall is not handy.

When you start to get more Vamps, like 5-6, you start suffering from BL a little too much. Some people Pro it to halve the impact, but I am not a huge supporter of the idea. Pro eats up a valuable skill slot for minimal impact, IMO. One way I have tried to mitigate the impact is to simply not activate one or two vamps each turn but making them; Block/Dodge/Guard/Standfirm/Diving Tackle. Then they can really own some real estate and plug up the opponent's drives. Substitute Sidestep for Standfirm and you can sometime crawl into the opponent's backfield without even activating!

Finally, as others have said, stat increases are gold to Vamps. A MV boosted Vamp gets Sure Feet Sprint after Blodge. He really can open up your offense.

Don't be discouraged. Starting vamps are a bad, bad team. Once they skill up, another thing all together.

[Smeborg]

Doc - Vamps get better as they gain skills, so you are not doing badly.

The best Vamp coaches that I have played against do the following things consistently:

- They spread the play (typically there will be tag teams of Vamp+Thrall all over the park).

- They use Hypno Gaze a lot, 3, 4 or even 5 times a turn (this makes life difficult for the opponent, as he has to decide whether and how to de-hypnotise his players, or he risks leaving them out of the game in the event of a turnover). It's a bit like having multiple blitz actions.

- They threaten to score quickly with a passing play on both offense and defense (some develop a Vamp as a "Thrower" for this purpose, with e.g. Dodge, (Block), S-Hands, K-Ret, S-Arm or similar). This takes advantage of all that AG4.

- They are not afraid to do nothing with a Vamp when appropriate (to avoid B-Lust).

I also agree with the skill choice posted earlier, Dodge then Block on all Vamps (the sole exception is the "Thrower" who may go Dodge, S-Hands).

Hope that helps.

[TheDoc]

Thanks guys,

I will take this on board for the next matches.

What set ups for offense/defense would you say are the best?

[Chris]

Do people prefer inducements (largely to keep vamps in the game, so stuff like babes) to thrall skills?

[dsavillian]

Do people prefer inducements (largely to keep vamps in the game, so stuff like babes) to thrall skills?

I think a mix of both.

I like having a few skilled thralls so that I can use them in a pinch or when a vampire really really can't fail a blood lust. I've found Wrestle/tackle thralls to be handy by allowing the vampires to get more useful skills like block and anything else but tackle.

But then you want a bunch of unskilled thralls that are prime blood lust targets and good line fodder. I absolutely hate it when I have to bite a skilled thrall... but I suppose it's safer than getting hit by a PO/MB opponent!

[Sandwich]

Just roll Blood Lust like you did against me last week, and you'll be fine

Everyone, stop giving him advice! Or, give him bad advice instead... my goblins will thank you for it

[TheDoc]

Just roll Blood Lust like you did against me last week, and you'll be fine

Everyone, stop giving him advice! Or, give him bad advice instead... my goblins will thank you for it

That's not fair! The chaos destroyed me. The elf game yeah I rolled 0 Blood lust for the 2nd half and only twice in the first half
Against the humans I did more damage to my team than he did 3 D&I and 4 KO'd!

[Smurf]

My theory is do not field all vamps at the same time.

2 vamps offence
2 vamps defence
2 vamps general purpose.

At least that puts more thralls on the field and less chance of nibbling on them.

[nazgob]

4 Blodge vamps. All general purpose, field them all, all of the time.

Throw in leader if you can to trim some TV.

I find that wrestle works well on the thralls.

[mattgslater]

4 Blodge vamps. All general purpose, field them all, all of the time.

Throw in leader if you can to trim some TV.

I find that wrestle works well on the thralls.

This. 4 Vamps + 9 Thralls + 5TRR = 115, 120 with Apoth. That's quite manageable. Wrestle denies zones, which is what your team is built around anyway.

I've had my butt kicked by some teams that specialized their Vamps, but only after 2-3 skills. There are lots of great choices following Blodge or Blodgestep, but they all build on the same base.