Advanced Bash on Bash setups

[swilhelm73]

I face an orc team with my chaos team in my next playoff matchup, and I thought it might be interesting to talk defensive setups.

Last time I played them I had half his team off the pitch and a wizard in reserve just waiting to score T8 - then the game crashed. When we restored and played over I won the game 2-0.

Here is the defense he used.

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..b.|B.....B|.b..
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.b..|.......|..b.
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I attacked his front line with the Mino - as my only claw player. and probed his defense on the left wing with Grashnak (I was down a lot of TV in that match). He swarmed that side, so I reversed direction to the right wing, with only 2 of his players in position. He managed to cover that flank well so I switched back to the left. By this point I had started to win the attrition war and had KO'd a number of his player (4-1). He loaded the cage I had with all of his players which allowed me to grind to a T8 TD.

So my analysis would be that he lined up too deep facing Chaos - I wasn't going to try and quickly sprint into his end. Also, he sought out too much contact - while he had a skill/armor advantage, it wasn't so overwhelming that playing tight on my Chaos was a good strategy.

For the second half, I lined up in this defense.

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..b.|C..C..C|.b..
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He attacked up the left wing (down 2 players he couldn't afford to probe) while leaving his thrower deep. I shut down the left wing, and when he tried to reverse to the right wing he threw an incomplete pass that allowed me to get the ball. The game then became a scrum with me maintaining position, but not being able to set up safe cages but managing to score on T16.

I think this defense worked well, especially considering I was down a CW - if he wants to set up for a 2 turn TD and give the ball back to me he is welcome to do so - I'm concerned about the grind.

Our current teams are below, so I think I will set my defense up like this;

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...B|..C.A..|D...
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This means he will have to blitz a CW - where the higher armor will hopefully hold. This will screen my three best BMs and my Minotaur. I'll have to blitz with the Mino to get him into the play...but I need that claw hitting Orcs. Otherwise the PO guy will make most of the blitzes. I want to avoid scrums where possible - if he engages I'll disengage unless it is to my favor if I can. His DP - with a niggle - will be an early target if I can get to him. Thoughts?

My team;

M|MN: Block, Claw, Tents, Guard, SF
A|CW: Block, Guard, MB
B|CW: Block, Guard
C|CW: Block, Guard
D|CW: Block, Guard
1|BM: Block, Dodge, Tackle, Guard, [Normal Skill]
2|BM: Wrestle, Tackle, MB, PO
3|BM: Wrestle
4|BM: Block, MB
5|BM: Block, Tackle
6|BM: Block, SH
BM: Rookiex2
4 RR
13 players
1 Coach/1 Cheer
TV 2050

My Opponent

Troll: Guard, Juggs, Sf
BoB: Block, Guard
BoB: Block, Guard, MB, -AG
BoB: Block, Guard, Grab, MB
Bob: Block, Guard
TH: Block, +ST, Fend, Acc (League MVP)
TH: Strong Arm, Acc, NoS, KOR, Block
BZ: +MA, +MA, Tackle, Guard, MB
BZ: +AG, Guard
BZ: Tackle, MB, Dodge, Guard
BZ: Guard, Tackle, MB, Frenzy, -MA
LN: Block, Guard, DP, -MA, Niggle
4 RR
12 players
1 Coach/1 Cheer
TV 2260

[Ullis]

Rookies are for los duty. How else will they learn any new stuff? Putting two skill beastmen on the los is just asking for trouble.

[Smeborg]

swil - it would appear that you and others (e.g. Matt) play BB according to a very different philosophy to mine. Please forgive me, but I struggle to understand why you freely concede space to your opponent on his first turn, allow players down either wing, and give him a free opportunity to score in 2 turns. Why hang back against a slow team? I prefer to contest space, to make my opponent work hard to advance the ball at all, to not give away easy 2-turn shots, and to force my opponent to roll dice if he wants to break through my second line. It is exceedingly rare for me to see anything like the set-ups you give in the environments in which I play (tabletop leagues and tourneys). So I find your suggestions puzzling. Are these set-ups common in the environments in which you play?

All the best.

[spubbbba]

I’d say it’s very common in bash vs bash games to set up centrally and close to the LOS. This allows you to protect more key players and you can react to your opponent’s attacks better. If you spread out then it does require a little more effort to break through but equally a big chunk of your team may struggle to get in on the action if they power down one flank.

Most bash coaches will be very happy if their opponent goes for a 2 turn TD at the start of the half as it is more likely to fail and even if it succeeds they’ve got 7 turns to equalise. Few bash teams will be able to get more than a couple of players in scoring range and they tend not to be that agile so it’s not hard to blitz one and then mark the other.

If they have just 2 or 3 turns to equalise then I can see why you'd want to spread your defence.

[nufflehatesme]

pretty much what spubbbba said smeborg. the 3-5-5 protects 5 players and everyone will be able to get to the main action. if your opponent wants to score in 2-3 turns good luck to him in bash on bash.

your setup looks good swilhelm, though putting your sure hands beast on the los is asking for trouble. ballsy though as it means u have block everywhere by leaving the rookies on the bench. if you survive the initial blocks (big if) it will be a good call.

[mattgslater]

pretty much what spubbbba said smeborg. the 3-5-5 protects 5 players and everyone will be able to get to the main action. if your opponent wants to score in 2-3 turns good luck to him in bash on bash.

your setup looks good swilhelm, though putting your sure hands beast on the los is asking for trouble. ballsy though as it means u have block everywhere by leaving the rookies on the bench. if you survive the initial blocks (big if) it will be a good call.

+1

You don't specifically need a sideline or interior defense here; you could just as easily start off a Zig, force the action into one wing, lock out the redirect with your other wing, or block off midfield and cover your opponent from the front, whichever way he goes.

[dode74]

Isn't a 3-5-5 13 players?

[mattgslater]

Yeah, the American term would be something like "3-3 nickel stack." My BB terminology would be a 3-3 interior defense: 101 or 202 line, 303 backfield screen, and five safeties between the 0 and 2 columns, so as to be unblitzable.

Warning: he has Grab and Frenzy. If he knows how to play my line techniques, nobody's really unblitzable, except a flank safety on an inverted wing, which isn't in your side's defensive vocabulary. He has an excellent one-turn score game, too, but there's not much to be done about that.

[nufflehatesme]

Isn't a 3-5-5 13 players?

lol nice catch. someone has been smoking the good stuff, i.e me. 3-3-5 should be better (and legal)

[mattgslater]

Isn't a 3-5-5 13 players?

lol nice catch. someone has been smoking the good stuff, i.e me. 3-3-5 should be better (and legal)

Come out to California! 3-5-5 isn't legal, but the good stuff is.