Skill choice for an all ogre team

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:37 am

i apologize, but i cannot understand why you are getting RR if you are going for an all-BIG GUYS team ?

Xtreme · Post by **Xtreme** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:03 pm

Most of the Ogre rosters that have been tested have had ogres with out "Big Guy" or atleast an Ogre postion that didn't have it.

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:04 pm

I think Skummy suggestions will be a whole lot stronger than any all-ogre team. Those 4 RRs will make sure those 8 ogres can throw a lot more blocks than 11 ogres with 1-2 RRs.

(Just note that you only get 3 gobbos for 120k though.)

I'd probably go for Frenzy rather than Pro on doubles. Partly for the feeling

but a Frenzy, BT Ogre is a nasty thing to have.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 4:15 pm

Gus wrote:i apologize, but i cannot understand why you are getting RR if you are going for an all-BIG GUYS team ?

Yup, Xtreme nailed it. If you are using the Ogre team from the BBmag, the Ogres did not have the "Big Guy" trait. You can use rerolls with them.

Mad Banker · Post by **Mad Banker** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 5:55 pm

MickeX wrote:I think Skummy suggestions will be a whole lot stronger than any all-ogre team. Those 4 RRs will make sure those 8 ogres can throw a lot more blocks than 11 ogres with 1-2 RRs.

(Just note that you only get 3 gobbos for 120k though.)

I'd probably go for Frenzy rather than Pro on doubles. Partly for the feeling but a Frenzy, BT Ogre is a nasty thing to have.

It's not about fielding the "best" possible team... It's about fielding a "concept" team...
I'm thrilled with the idea of fielding an all-ogre team and with the challenge of making it competitive.
It's all about the background and the concept actually!

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:42 pm

I believe the experimental Ogre team will probably end up in the Vault:

0-12 Ogres ... no Big Guy, but Strength access only
0-6 Goblins
70k rerolls

Galak

Mad Banker · Post by **Mad Banker** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:49 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:I believe the experimental Ogre team will probably end up in the Vault:

0-12 Ogres ... no Big Guy, but Strength access only
0-6 Goblins
70k rerolls

Galak

sounds fair

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:00 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:0-12 Ogres ... no Big Guy, but Strength access only

Can we have that for regular Big Guys as well please?

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:58 pm

Mad Banker wrote:It's not about fielding the "best" possible team... It's about fielding a "concept" team...
I'm thrilled with the idea of fielding an all-ogre team and with the challenge of making it competitive.

OK then

That could be a nice challenge! My guess is that you'll have difficulties in the beginning, but after a while you'll get to a point where the overpowered features of the ogre team will be very apparent

Just an idea: you could, legally, go for the Skummy roster and then fire the goblins immediately after team creation. That would still be stronger, but thus less challenging...

Steel-Eagle · Post by **Steel-Eagle** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:29 am

No General Skill access for ogres on the ogre team?!! Madness!! No normal access to block, sure hands, or tackle?, No Pro, no leader, Please say this isn't true....

Taking down "blodgers" near impossible. No players on this TEAM would have normal access to general skills. No amount of mighty blow in the world will help if they can't bring someone down! No pro for failed TTM. This seriously deficient team would be made that much worse. I think I just wasted $180 US on this team.

I understand giving a ST 4+ player block to start is way overpowering, but denying it to them except on doubles is ridiculous, especially if this were to be implemented Pro would be denied them ever. Boneheads with no shot at pro or leader?! ARGH!!!

Xtreme · Post by **Xtreme** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:18 pm

Steel-Eagle wrote:No General Skill access for ogres on the ogre team?!! Madness!! No normal access to block, sure hands, or tackle?, No Pro, no leader, Please say this isn't true.... Taking down "blodgers" near impossible. No players on this TEAM would have normal access to general skills. No amount of mighty blow in the world will help if they can't bring someone down! No pro for failed TTM. This seriously deficient team would be made that much worse. I think I just wasted $180 US on this team.

I understand giving a ST 4+ player block to start is way overpowering, but denying it to them except on doubles is ridiculous, especially if this were to be implemented Pro would be denied them ever. Boneheads with no shot at pro or leader?! ARGH!!!

Some might disagree with you.

I think it is a great fix to the roster. But I still feel like we need more strength skills to compensate.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:45 pm

Steel-Eagle wrote:No General Skill access for ogres on the ogre team?!! Madness!!

No, the only correct way to go if you want the team around the power level of Halflings and Goblins and that's the goal. They are not ment to be powerful.

No normal access to block, sure hands, or tackle?

Good imo, this is the only possible way to keeping a developed Ogre team from being a powerteam that cripples every opponent. If you have 10 Block skilled MB Ogres (and 1 gobbo for the ball) who (but maybe Amazons or Elves) should beat them? Consider playing a TR170 Norse team against Ogres of about the same TR ... ouch!

Taking down "blodgers" near impossible.

Not true ... take guard and BT on everyone (not much other choice anyway) and you'll throw 3 dice blocks against ST3 all the time. This gives you 42% chance of a POW against a blodger.

The only point i'd agree with you is Pro. Pro should go back to become a skill, so Big Guys can get it on a double.

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:13 pm

Steel-Eagle wrote:No General Skill access for ogres on the ogre team?!! Madness!! No normal access to block, sure hands, or tackle?, No Pro, no leader, Please say this isn't true.... Taking down "blodgers" near impossible. No players on this TEAM would have normal access to general skills. No amount of mighty blow in the world will help if they can't bring someone down! No pro for failed TTM. This seriously deficient team would be made that much worse. I think I just wasted $180 US on this team.

I understand giving a ST 4+ player block to start is way overpowering, but denying it to them except on doubles is ridiculous, especially if this were to be implemented Pro would be denied them ever. Boneheads with no shot at pro or leader?! ARGH!!!

Big Guys dominate the game way too much, if there had been any doubts about that before then ogre and pact teams proved it to be true eventually. Once they get Block they become strong powerhouses for powergamers which can make for rather lame games. Several coaches on fumbbl have claimed that their leagues have abandoned non-stunty Big Guys altogether and were far better of with it.

That said, it is still very unlikely that Big Guys will be discarded since they contribute to the fluff significantly and are well selling miniatures. If Big Guys were toned down by denying them access to general skills, they would no longer be such non-brainer-powergamer tools but rather a fluffy supplement to the game.

Pro has been made a trait only because of Big Guys (including vampires?), I don't want them to have such a large impact on the game.
Without general access all balance issues with regard to Big Guys would be solved immediately.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:30 pm

Mirascael wrote:
Steel-Eagle wrote:Big Guys dominate the game way too much, if there had been any doubts about that before then ogre and pact teams proved it to be true eventually.

I don't particularly like to see them lose general access, but if they do I hope that Mummies will also lose general skill access. They are big guys without negative penalties - and if no other ST 5 player in the game can get block on a regular roll, I don't think they should be able to, either.

Mad Banker · Post by **Mad Banker** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:13 pm

Skummy wrote:
Mirascael wrote:
Steel-Eagle wrote:Big Guys dominate the game way too much, if there had been any doubts about that before then ogre and pact teams proved it to be true eventually.
I don't particularly like to see them lose general access, but if they do I hope that Mummies will also lose general skill access. They are big guys without negative penalties - and if no other ST 5 player in the game can get block on a regular roll, I don't think they should be able to, either.

true...
This is nonsense to suppress general skill acces to big guys, it would just overpower the Khemri teams