Orc development in long

[omnimutant]

you can buy all the junk like trolls and gobos and throwers later

I'd have to disagree there. The Orc throwers need anything they can get early. Force completions just to get those extra points then take accurate(or +1 MA if you can). The big problem with the Orc thrower is that they only move 5 which is just slow enough to be just out of a decent throwing range most of the time. Problem is it usually takes most all the movement just to get the ball. But they do come with sure hands and pass which is really nice. I think once that orc thrower gets a little developed it's much easier to get things done on an orc team. They do end up with a good passing game.

I would'nt take a troll unless you plan on using him as a roadblock, because without easy block acess they suck even more. They tend to be more of a liability then a help. Besides 4 BOB should be more then enough power to get things done.

Gobo's are fun to have around. I would sugest taking one and use him as a saftey to add an extra TZ to a block, or as the fouler on your team. They are cheaper and faster then Lineorcs.

Blizers on the Orc team are Gods. They should be the Ball cariers and the power hitters at the same time. Sure Hands, Strip Ball, Tackle and Mighty Blow make em perfect.

Hope this helps.

[DoubleSkulls]

you can buy all the junk like trolls and gobos

Absent & I have had long discussions about the merits of various Orc team combinations.

I think there are 2 "best practices"

One is to only take Av9 stuff (that excludes throwers) and concentrate on developing them. You will get a very tough brutual team and concentrate all the development on players who are going to hang around (this is absent's preferred development).

Personnally I think that is a little one dimensional - and I like having a bit more mobility and a reasonable passing option. So I like to start with throwers and develop at least one of them for long range passing (i.e. accurate & strong arm).

Also I rate goblins very highly - 40k is bargin for a player that adds so much to Orc teams early on - because many teams can't take down the little blighters and dodge/stunty is very handy in some circumstances. They are the natural catchers on the Orc team and can be a real pest for opponents. Eventually all goblins die so don't really bother replacing them (keep one for one turners) but buy the better Blitzers & Black Orcs to replace them.

[Bizzy]

Well I would guess then the respective rosters would be something like this

absent1

3x~Black Orc
3x~Blitzer
5x~Line Orc
3x~Reroll
9x~Fan Factor

ianwilliams

3x~Black Orc
3x~Blitzer
1x~Thrower
1x~Goblin
3x~Line Orc
3x~Reroll
8x~Fan Factor

A combo of both would be

3x~Black Orc
3x~Blitzer
1x~Thrower
4x~Line Orc
3x~Reroll
7x~Fan Factor

[chunky04]

3x~Black Orc
3x~Blitzer
1x~Thrower
4x~Line Orc
3x~Reroll
7x~Fan Factor

I'd personally go with 4 BOB's and 2 Blitzers in a long-term league. First game I'd try and score twice with my Thrower to get him accurate.

[Darkson]

3x~Black Orc
3x~Blitzer
1x~Thrower
1x~Goblin
3x~Line Orc
3x~Reroll
8x~Fan Factor

I like this one, but with a line-orc changed to a 2nd Gobbo and FF 9, and if it's a league that's 10+ games, a Blitzer converted to a BOB as Chunky said.

So:
4x~Black Orc
2x~Blitzer
1x~Thrower
2x~Goblin
2x~Line Orc
3x~Reroll
9x~Fan Factor

[DoubleSkulls]

My Orc team for very long term development is: 1 Troll, 4 BOBs, 1 blitzer, 1 thrower, 4 goblins, 9 FF, 3 RR.

I thought absent had actually posted his own (IIRC): 4 BOBs, 4 Blitzers, 3 Line Orcs, 9 FF, 2RR.

[Bizzy]

oh i just threw that together from my own deductions

[Highlander]

I'm currently thinking of running this setup with my friends while I get them interested into the game. It's not the best in terms of raw power, but it's got alot of options and character. It's also built more on the idea of "I don't want any duplicate miniatures on my team so that each player feels unique". This is also why I can't wait for the new human team.

1 Troll
2 Black Orcs
3 Blitzers
1 Thrower
3 Linemen
2 Goblins
2 Rerolls
8 FF

Or the other way I was concidering was:

2 Black Orcs
4 Blitzers (a converted Varag to act as the captain of the team)
1 Thrower
3 Linemen
1 Goblin
3 Rerolls
8 FF

[absent1]

regardless with what else you beleive (like my crazy no thrower beleif), you always want to start with as many black orcs as possible, blitzers can score td's and get cas to get skills, black orcs are far harder to get skills with, and every skill is soooo good on blackorcs, so despite what else a person may or may not take, take the black orcs right from the get go.

[Lamoron]

My Orc team for very long term development is: 1 Troll, 4 BOBs, 1 blitzer, 1 thrower, 4 goblins, 9 FF, 3 RR.

I started a team just like it a week ago (TT), and it works like a charm... won my first two games, and tied a third, though I wouldn't recommend playing Vs. Dwarfs with this team in the beginning.

With 3 Rerolls from start, my Black Orcs where having a field day blocking, and with a single thrower, I had Sure Hands on Pickup most of the time. On top of that, it's like playing a Goblin team, only with players and options not open to regular Goblins... heaps of fun.

As others have said, Blitzers get mad skills at a fast pace, so don't worry about not having them from the beginning... and as absent1 said, start with all the Black Orcs, they need the early experience.

If you wan't to run a regular Orc team wich ends up with 4 Black Orcs, 4 Blitzers, 2 Throwers and a Troll on pitch, team strategy is pretty straight forward... bash bash and run: As someone else said before, don't put the Black Orcs on the LOS, use Blitzers and the Troll for that. (Blitzers are AV-9 as well, and easier to replace if they die). Keep your throwers back. If you opt. only for running play, throwers should have block (and ANY stat increase you get). Keep your two remaining blitzers far enough back to intercept your opponents fastest runners, and spread out the Black Orcs to stop any slower moving opponents. From there, just hit everything that moves, and try to get the ball with your Blitzers (at wich point your thrower should be close enough to grab it if it pops loose)

If you wan't a passing play you need to skill up some blitzers for that type of play as well as your thrower... but I find Orc passing play to be a last resort, but then I usually loose the ball as soon as I even think of that sort of thing.

If you need advice on skills http://fumbbl.com/skills.php should offer some advice, otherwise just go by instict... if nothing else, it gives you some players to laugh at when you get more experienced.

[Olsson]

it is a true fact that blockers (of any team) doesn't get spp as much as needed.

They are seldom goalers too.

With these two facts in mind, you should always try to get spp on blockers. Putting them on the sidelines is in fact a good idea, but they should be the blitzer (as in one who blitz, not the team pos) so they might get a cas.

beside them is the thrower the key player who needs spp.

[el sid]

My Orc team for very long term development is: 1 Troll, 4 BOBs, 1 blitzer, 1 thrower, 4 goblins, 9 FF, 3 RR.

I started a team just like it a week ago (TT), and it works like a charm... won my first two games, and tied a third, though I wouldn't recommend playing Vs. Dwarfs with this team in the beginning.

I wonder what teams you played against, being so succesful with this line-up? The Troll and the BOB's are useless against Skaven or Elf teams. Especially in the beginning of their development, as they lack Tackle. With a MA of 4, you can run like hell and you won't even come close to catching your opponents' players!

The Goblins are just plain fun for your opponent to kick them around. They are good at giving assists, but then you need mobile concentrations of pure blocking power to take advantage of this. Which your BOB's are definitely not.

My guess is: If you get good results with this initial line-up in a beginning league, you:
- Either played against Gobbo and/or 'Fling teams
- Your adversaries sucked big time at coaching their teams
- You were extremely lucky
- Any combination of these three

This is no personal attack on your achievements, but let's be honest. My experience is a team like this will struggle a lot, certainly in the beginning of a league.

You lack mobility to tackle fast-moving, agile teams. Catcher-type players will dodge through your lines like hell. With no-one in your team being mobile enough to quickly change flank.

You lack the skills and muscle (with FOUR Goblins on the field) to go up against specialized bashy teams.

I've found it is very difficult to start a Orc team without a decent number of Blitzers. They give you the mobility and punching power which you need to able to rely on.

[Lamoron]

beside them is the thrower the key player who needs spp.

Erhm, no he is not, and no he does not... he will get SPP all by himself if you have one, he will even endanger your game if you try to force SPP on him by completions.

Orc passing play is a last resort, so Throwers usually run the ball because of their Sure Hands, so if you don't give other players Sure Hands, your Thrower will most likely get the ball, when you are dry on rerolls or your opponent has a Strip Baller.

Give a Blitzer Sure Hands, and you don't even need a Thrower... I usually have one Thrower from game one, as he can act as ball-runner with his sure hands until my blitzers get the skills, but after that I keep him only to have the option of a LongPass or if he get's a stat increase... then you might consider doing something with him.

[Olsson]

we sure play a different game, i never cages, instead i pretend to be an elf or something, throwing the ball a lot.

[Lamoron]

This is no personal attack on your achievements, but let's be honest. My experience is a team like this will struggle a lot, certainly in the beginning of a league.

No hurty my feelings seriously though, I'm not the least bit offended... I played three vampire teams (appearantly that's the thing now), so not entirely flings, but not the strongest of teams either.

I can see many of your points, but I started the games with the intent of loosing ever so badly, and just give my BoBs and Troll any stray Cas they could get, and with 3 RR they smashed everything... so your point stands, maybe I was just lucky, but it worked.

What I tried to get through in my former post, wich in retrospect I see is not very clear, is that this team is like playing a Goblin team wich does everything better than a regular one. Im a regular Lizardmen player as well (though not as much as Orcs), and the team works a bit like the lizzies just slower.

Also I did have incredible luck with my Troll, 3 Cas in 3 games... my other Orc Troll (other team) has 3 Cas in 36 games.