when to use the apothecary

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aanemesis
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Post by aanemesis »

wesleytj wrote:when you get an SI on a player, you get to find out immediately what the injury is? before you decide to apoth or not? We always read it that you rolled on the serious injury table after the game. Is this a recent change I overlooked, or what?
Cloggy wrote:The injury roll is fully resolved first. So yes, you know the injury before deciding whether to use the apot.
OMG! It is true! Just read LRB4.0 and vault PBBL1.9 again, and yes, it appears that Cloggy is right. And to think that I clenched my teeth and took a risk with not using apo for my SI'd lino HE in the league I'm currently running. Luckily it was only a MNG.

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Jeremiah Kool
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Post by Jeremiah Kool »

One thing that gives me the creeps is a Dirty Player on the opposing team. Regardless where the the referee is looking expensive players like Witches are huge targets for a foul. Without the Apo - uh oh...

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qk
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Post by qk »

I actually "roleplay" that decision.

If I hate the injured player, I don't use it. Otherwise, I always do. I don't care that much about practical issues...




I hated that fumbling thrower... "thrower-up", I used to call him. And when he died... he did die!!!! :D



I've only played 9 games online... might change my approach in the future, but so far, it's fun this way...

Bloody Regards!
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Coach Alex
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Post by Coach Alex »

Roleplaying the game is probably my favorite way of playing, as long as the opponents play the same. If they don't, it's no fun.

Well anyway, regarding the use of an apothecary, you got to consider a few things :

- The kind of injury : a "Out for the game" injury doesn't deserve an apothecary intervention, keep it for the killed players or those who loses stats instead.

- You can use an apothecary at the end of the game : got a niggling on your Chaos Warrior? If you think you can win without him, wait until the end of the game to use your apothecary on him, just in case someone get killed ...

- The turn in which it happens : if you get a Serious Injury resulting of a "Throw a rock" kick-off event of the first drive of the game, I would seriously reconsider using the apothecary on that!

- The team you're playing with : if you play woodelves and get a line-elf niggled, keep your apothecary for wardancers ... or one of the other five players you'll get injuried in the game!

- The team you're playing against : the odds of getting a player injured against Khemri are not the same than against Halflings eh!

- The value of the player : an apothecary on a 50k linerat? What the hell? Keep it for your Gutter Runners dammit!

- The "skill-wise" value of your player : if he has AG5, may be you could think about using the apoth on him even if he got killed on the first drive don't you think?

That's pretty much it I think ...

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Cooper
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Post by Cooper »

I got some questions and remarks about your ideas
:-)
Coach Alex wrote: Well anyway, regarding the use of an apothecary, you got to consider a few things :

- The kind of injury : a "Out for the game" injury doesn't deserve an apothecary intervention, keep it for the killed players or those who loses stats instead.
Usually that is my philosophy as well. It could however be used in a tactical way as well.

I once used my apo on a KO-result. Having that player on the field was my only option to score the winning TD. It payed off.

I once used my apo on a BH-developed BlackOrc against a developed Chaos team. I figured that i really needed the STrenghth on the field or i would be over-strenghthed and that would lead to more injuries.

The next turn he injured the Troll and a Blackorc and he overpowered me anyway,...i left with a Nig on a BlackOrc. This time it didnt work, but i would do it again the same way.

Same as that i decide in important games to use my apo on a failed Nig roll on an important player. Even when playing elves against a bashing team...The thing is: with more players on the field you can very often lower the chances of getting injuries. If the game goes well with elves you can score just at the moment before your players will be killed. You need the right players to be able to controll the pace of the game though,...
Coach Alex wrote: - You can use an apothecary at the end of the game : got a niggling on your Chaos Warrior? If you think you can win without him, wait until the end of the game to use your apothecary on him, just in case someone get killed ...
Is this true? We always played "use it now or don't use it at all"
Coach Alex wrote: - The turn in which it happens : if you get a Serious Injury resulting of a "Throw a rock" kick-off event of the first drive of the game, I would seriously reconsider using the apothecary on that!
Can you apo something done by the public? does throw a rock count as done by the public? I can't remember. Your point is valid though. The moment of the injury is very important in the decision.

Coach Alex wrote: - The team you're playing with : if you play woodelves and get a line-elf niggled, keep your apothecary for wardancers ... or one of the other five players you'll get injuried in the game!
Your point is valid again. You need to consider the team you are playing with. If i am playing elves however i would chose to heal the niggle, because it is "#players" that you will lose games on. Losing a movement or even an Agility wouldnt be so bad. If you protect your wardancers they wont get injured,...or at least the chance is pretty small. Take less risk with them if you already used your apo.
Coach Alex wrote: - The team you're playing against : the odds of getting a player injured against Khemri are not the same than against Halflings eh!

- The value of the player : an apothecary on a 50k linerat? What the hell? Keep it for your Gutter Runners dammit!
That depends on your moneyflow i guess,...a linerat with 2 skills is a lot harder to replace than a gutterrunner, even with 2 skills.
Coach Alex wrote: - The "skill-wise" value of your player : if he has AG5, may be you could think about using the apoth on him even if he got killed on the first drive don't you think?
That;s sort of what i said in the one above :-)
It is allways a combination of things ofcourse
:-)
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Post by Coach Alex »

Well, in bloodbowl the golden rules are rare, these were indications, things to take in consideration before using or not an apothecary.

Exemple : if it's the last opponent's turn and he stunt one of your player with his last move, there is no reason why you shouldn't use your apothecary ...

About your questions :

- Yes you can use your apothecary at the end of the game EXCEPT for death. Also, the apothecary can't heal a player that has been eaten by a Very Hungry player neither.

- I see no reason why an apothecary couldn't heal a player hurt by the public, he can even cure death!

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Post by wesleytj »

Coach Alex wrote:- Yes you can use your apothecary at the end of the game EXCEPT for death.
Is this true? If so, when did that change? I know in previous editions you had to decide to use the apoth IMMEDIATELY or not at all.
Coach Alex wrote:- I see no reason why an apothecary couldn't heal a player hurt by the public, he can even cure death!
Except that it's in the rules as such. I think the logic is that the apoth is unable to safely reach the player in the crowd without himself being mauled. If a BB player can't handle the crowd, neither can the apoth.

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Post by Coach Alex »

wesleytj wrote:
Coach Alex wrote:- Yes you can use your apothecary at the end of the game EXCEPT for death.
Is this true? If so, when did that change? I know in previous editions you had to decide to use the apoth IMMEDIATELY or not at all.

Hum, I'm quite sure it's true (at least in the LRB v.4) ... but I'll go check it right now ...
Coach Alex wrote:- I see no reason why an apothecary couldn't heal a player hurt by the public, he can even cure death!
Except that it's in the rules as such. I think the logic is that the apoth is unable to safely reach the player in the crowd without himself being mauled. If a BB player can't handle the crowd, neither can the apoth.
I'd be quite surprised. May be it's possible for players being pushed in the crowd, but it's certainly not the case for throw a rock ...

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Post by Coach Alex »

Dammit ... you were right once again. :oops: Being pushed in the crowd means no apothecary (specified as such, not as a "casualty caused by the public", so players injuried by rocks can be healed by apothecary) ... and yes you got to use it right after an injury occured (which is kind of illogical I think, but eh ... it's only worth 50k after all).

I bow to you once again wesley ...

And I apologize to Cooper for the mistake ...

I'm so noobish dammit :P

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Post by Borg »

Coach Alex wrote:- You can use an apothecary at the end of the game : got a niggling on your Chaos Warrior? If you think you can win without him, wait until the end of the game to use your apothecary on him, just in case someone get killed ...
Both the LRB4 and the Vault rules state specifically that the apo MUST be used IMMEDIATELY after suffering the casualty (or not at all).

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Post by Coach Alex »

You might want to read the previous post ;)

(don't mention I have to read the rules before posting about them ... I already got it don't worry :oops: )

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Post by Cooper »

Coach Alex wrote:And I apologize to Cooper for the mistake ...
No problem, i make them too sometimes, even if rarely :wink:

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Post by wesleytj »

Coach Alex wrote: I bow to you once again wesley ...

And I apologize to Cooper for the mistake ...

I'm so noobish dammit :P
Hehehe there's certainly no need for apology or grovelling to me...it's just evidence I've been playing this game way too long. :)

As long as the right answer is acheived in the end, that's all that matters.

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Post by arv9673 »

I know this thread looks pretty eked out, and I agree with what seems to be the concensus, I have one small thing to add. I've got a Human Catcher (8237 catch, dodge): blodger, leaper who also has a niggler. has missed 3 of the 4 games he's been niggling. Ive rolled the apoth for him twice. 1's both times. I am still not sure what I will do next time as he is a pretty big part of my offense. Probably just suck it up and deal. But it still hurts

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Post by wesleytj »

in the long run, probabilities are supposed to even out. so the fact that you've failed 3 of 4 just means you've gotten all the failures "out of the way" early on.

at the same time, the probability for failure on any SINGLE roll of that nature is still 1 in 6...

that seeming contradiction is what makes this game so much more than just the numbers.

bottom line is this: if that guy is still worth the tr even if he's only there 84% of the time, and it sounds like he is, keep him around.

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