New Chaos team for league

fen · Post by **fen** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:00 am

It sounds like you have an out of date version of the big guy rules.
LRB4.0 is here:
http://www.specialist-games.com/bloodbo ... ebook4.pdf
It'll be switching to 5.0 in a month or so:
http://www.midgardbb.com/LRB_PBBL/PBBL/ ... k_1_12.pdf (this is not a finalised version)

As for the question:
Orcs are the most forgiving Bashing team by a long margin imo.

Kheldar · Post by **Kheldar** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:04 am

Nethrag wrote:I think I must have missed some of the rules of Wild Animal - in my book I thought all it did was that you had to do his action first and if there was an adacent player you had to either block or blitz (so if there's an adacent player I can just block and use a beastman for a blitz). What am I missing? Is it just that the mino will be on his back a lot of the time and so if theres an adacent player will have to blitz?

Hmmmm, I'm starting to think another team might be my best option...

Can someone tell me what would be a decent, more tactically forgiving, bashy team?

This was the old rule in LRB 2. It was changed in 2003 or 2004 i dont remember actually.

If you want to try another bashy team in a short leage, then perhaps norse are the right race for you. Because of their block and frenzy they are a good starting team. Because of their armor 7 the get weaker at high Teamratings. For a short leage the seem to be fine to me.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:47 pm

What I think you guys are missing is that these guys are using the rules they've got, and as rookies they aren't really interested in what rules are current or what edition they're playing. Just let them play with the rules they have before you try to confuse them with all this LRB / Vault stuff.

That said, what these guys have said is still largely applicable. Wild Animals can cause problems, and Chaos teams in general are very tough to play for new players, especially in short leagues.

What bashy-style team would I recommend for a shorter league? Given the list you provided, I would say Norse, altho honestly my #1 answer would be Orcs. But since you don't have an orc team, Norse will do.

Don't overlook or discount the fact that they all have block starting off. In the hands of a rookie playing against a bunch of rookies, that can be a HUGE benefit.

But if you're really set on playing Chaos, go right ahead. Just don't say we didn't warn you, you will struggle some. But if you're all just new players, chances are team selection will matter somewhat less than how quickly you pick up the tactics and nuances of the game. Some guy who's just naturally brilliant may beat you all with a goblin team, in which case be grateful he chose goblins.

Hope that helps.

Nethrag · Post by **Nethrag** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:07 pm

I'll get some real clarification on which rules were definetly going to use tonight hopefully, then I can make a better decision.

Thanks a lot for the replys, if we do end up playing with (what apparently are ) v2.0 rules then I think I may go for a mino and 10 beastman, just because I really really like the look of the guy. I'm sure I dont get all the reasons why hes not as effective as he seems - but I'm banking that my opponents wont either lol.

Also if it comes to it I can just buy an orc blood bowl team (norse seem a little squishy to me), they're not exactly expensive (I've just bought a new warhammer army which cost more than 150quid so I can certainly get a Â£30 set for an entire new game)

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:30 pm

norse have low armor, which can hurt, but at the same time, they all have block, meaning they are tougher to take down, meaning less armor rolls in the first place.

now, the longer the league runs, the less that advantage will matter as time goes on and other opponents get block as well. but early on, norse can bash with the best.

all that said, orcs are a better option for bashy teams, particularly for a rookie coach. they have more armor and more strength, and still a healthy amount of block as well.

chaos are somewhat the opposite of the norse, hampered by lack of skills early on, but progressively better as time passes. in longer leagues, they can get pretty nasty.

as for the mino, most of the arguments against him are based on a rules set you aren't even playing. you're using one of the more manageable incarnations of the "wild animal" skill, so if you have a mino and love the mini, play with it! win or lose, you'll most likely enjoy the game more anyway, they certainly add a wildcard element to the game.

that post was kindof all over the place, talking about 3 different teams. but i hope i helped nonetheless.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:28 pm

Well the main reasons for not taking a mino in v4.0 are:
1) he doesn't have block and needs a double to get it
and
2) can't use team re-rolls

combine this with frenzy and you have a turnover machine. But that's of no concern if you play LRB 2. In that rule sets big guys are pretty darn good.

fen · Post by **fen** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:11 pm

wesleytj wrote:What I think you guys are missing is that these guys are using the rules they've got, and as rookies they aren't really interested in what rules are current or what edition they're playing. Just let them play with the rules they have before you try to confuse them with all this LRB / Vault stuff.

Didn't miss that. But he was confused about why I was talking about a different kind of Wild Animal. So I clarified the rules sets I was refering to. Personally I wouldn't play 2.0, but they're welcome to use whichever ruleset suits their league.

DaFoola · Post by **DaFoola** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:08 pm

The only thing to keep track of with a Minotaur in the v2/out-of-the-box rules is that you shouldn't leave him out on his own - a clever opponent (particularly one playing orcs) might figure out that he can cause you a lot of trouble by forcing you to start your turn with a 1-die or even 2-dice-he-chooses block that will end your turn.

Other than that, as has been mentioned, it's certainly not as much of a problem as dealing with a Wild Animal under the newest version of the rules.

Nethrag · Post by **Nethrag** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:27 pm

Ok - to dredge up an old topic, the rules we are using have been confirmed.
http://www.specialist-games.com/bloodbowl/rulebook.asp

According to these wild animals have to roll a 4+ (with +2 in taking a block or blitz) to perform an action.

Does this mean that its a turnover if he fails or is it just a wasted action?

The good side being that they no longer have to have the first action AND they can now be assisted (this is new to me anyway - I'm sure its old news to you guys lol).
1 assist with a horns enhanced blitz means a 3d block on S3 things which seems pretty decent to me. Especially if I can leave it until after I've secured the ball.

So basically that plus the fact that I like the model, plus the fact that the regualr season will be 4 weeks with a max of 2 games played a week means I'm pretty sure I'll take him.
I'll also not go the beastman heavy route as I wont have enough time to develop them and then get CWs.

Any reccommendations for a 100 starting roster, in this short league?
How important would fan factor be under these circumstances?

Mootaz · Post by **Mootaz** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:39 pm

Nethrag wrote:Ok - to dredge up an old topic, the rules we are using have been confirmed.
http://www.specialist-games.com/bloodbowl/rulebook.asp

According to these wild animals have to roll a 4+ (with +2 in taking a block or blitz) to perform an action.

Does this mean that its a turnover if he fails or is it just a wasted action?

The good side being that they no longer have to have the first action AND they can now be assisted (this is new to me anyway - I'm sure its old news to you guys lol).
1 assist with a horns enhanced blitz means a 3d block on S3 things which seems pretty decent to me. Especially if I can leave it until after I've secured the ball.

So basically that plus the fact that I like the model, plus the fact that the regualr season will be 4 weeks with a max of 2 games played a week means I'm pretty sure I'll take him.
I'll also not go the beastman heavy route as I wont have enough time to develop them and then get CWs.

Any reccommendations for a 100 starting roster, in this short league?
How important would fan factor be under these circumstances?

It is not a turnover, the Wild Animal even keeps its Tackle Zone. It is just a wasted action.

EDIT:
In such a short league FF is not really important.
This is the roster I'd take under the circumstances that you want a Mino.

Code: Select all

110 Mino
300 3 Chaos Warriors
420 7 Beastmen
140 2 ReRolls
030 3 FF

Buy an Apo first, then save for the 4th Warrior.

Nethrag · Post by **Nethrag** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:49 pm

2 rerolls is enough?

Mootaz · Post by **Mootaz** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:01 pm

Nethrag wrote:2 rerolls is enough?

Starting chaos is never easy

But in such a short league I'd rather have enough Warriors than a 3rd Reroll.

EDIT: In such a short league you will always have problems with Chaos and as you want a Mino to start with...

Nethrag · Post by **Nethrag** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:02 pm

Ok cool, that's probably what I'll go for then.
I'm guessing you'd drop the mino though?

What would your prefered list be?
3 CWs
8 Beastman
3 rerolls
1FF

Mootaz · Post by **Mootaz** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:12 am

Sounds ok. Buy Apo after first game.

Nethrag · Post by **Nethrag** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:17 pm

Hey guys - just wanted to let you all know how I'm going.
Played 4 games so far (the last 2 against experienced players no less).
I have 3 wins and a draw (your allowed draws in our league system.

My starting line up was 3 CWs, 1 Mino, 7 Beastmen, 2 rerolls and 3 FF
(we were using 4th ed team costs)

I've rolled well for cash and have an apothecary
an extra beastman and I've just bought my 4th CW :->

I have a beastman with leader, one with extra arms, 2 with block and a CW with block. Plus no-one's got any long term injuries thanks to the apothecary which has been a great help - although my mino is yet to finish a game lol

There are only 4 more games in regular play before the semi finals and finals. I've got a reasonable chance of reaching the semis as I think I'm winning the league so far. So I should have atleast 5 games to go maybe 6.

Where should my team go from here? My Chaos warrior has a half decent chance of getting his 2nd skill quite soon (he's on 12 SPPs). So any preferred combos? The league is pretty heavily slanted towards bashy teams btw.