Two double rolls finally for my lizards

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:05 pm

Quadrasonic wrote:
Also, if you have no skilled Saurus after 5 games, I really reccommend you givng them the ball every chance you get and get them SPPoints. They last a lot longer than Skinks do. I usually lose a skink per game, but after five games myself, I have 5 Saurus with a skill each, 3 of which are only a couple SPPoints from their second skills.

Other than when your opponent kicks the ball out of bounds, how can you give your Saurus the ball? They have such low agility!!!

Quadrasonic · Post by **Quadrasonic** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:50 am

datalorex wrote:
Quadrasonic wrote:
Also, if you have no skilled Saurus after 5 games, I really reccommend you givng them the ball every chance you get and get them SPPoints. They last a lot longer than Skinks do. I usually lose a skink per game, but after five games myself, I have 5 Saurus with a skill each, 3 of which are only a couple SPPoints from their second skills.
Other than when your opponent kicks the ball out of bounds, how can you give your Saurus the ball? They have such low agility!!!

AG1 does not mean a player can never get himself the ball. Cover one with a cage, hand it off to him, and re-roll it if you have to. It is just a little better than 50/50 he catches it, and if he doesn't, one of your cagers probably will.

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:12 am

Joemanji wrote:I don't understand this fascination with HMP + Diving Catch btw. I've even seen people take it in tournaments. It seems like a very desperate tactic to me.

Same here. Some say that it's fun, and I can see it being a funny thing to try. But it won't win you games very often.

bouncergriim · Post by **bouncergriim** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:27 am

HMP +D.catch combo, makes your opponent have to worry. Also HMP can be really useful against slow teams to help keep the ball away and give you skinks time to run to it while the long beards are still waddling after them.

bouf · Post by **bouf** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:16 pm

bouncergriim wrote:HMP +D.catch combo, makes your opponent have to worry. Also HMP can be really useful against slow teams to help keep the ball away and give you skinks time to run to it while the long beards are still waddling after them.

Exactly... The threat isn't in DC & HMP... Its just HMP.

Lets say you have a HMP skink (or whatever team). And he's standing in your endzone.

Now imagine what your opponent thinks...

"I need to...
A. Send a guy or wto after that skink...
B. Send a few guys to stop the Skinks getting a positional advantage in my back feild...
C. I need to get a few heavy hitters to stay on the LoS to tie up those guys."

You have just split your opponents defence three or four ways with just one skill. (No Diving Catch Needed)

Try to make little walls and throw the ball to the other side. Sure its a Turn Over but with a good screen it won't matter. Since your opponent has to split his defence, you can target the week zone. EG, you send guys down the Right Deep & Left about mid way. Now if he leaves the LoS Weak... pound on him and run the leftovers in to help the zone with the most preasure. If he leaves one of your threats Weak. Tighten things up and make your HMP to the relative safty. If he leaves your Passer weak (enough that you're not worried) then fight it out for a few rounds

If you don't get the opprotunity your after... Don't go for the HMP. Skinks are one of the best teams for this because you could just run the 8 MA to a potential receiver neare the LoS and they could run a Hand off to a potential catcher.

Thats the Glory in the HMP. Diving Catch is nice, but I wouldn't take it just on the off chance your HMP will hit them. (I'd only take it if you are using the rule that DC works against Bouncing/scattered balls - otherwise I'd never get it)

bouncergriim · Post by **bouncergriim** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:31 pm

one nice use of d.Catch is comboed with kickoff return, but I was able to use on a few kickoffs without K.R., before everyone got kick in my league. Also D.Catch is nice if you have to pass with skinks due to their "great" passing ability, an inaccurate pass might not be the end of the world/turn if the ball ends up next to your D.Catcher.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:13 am

HMP is a desperation skill, but desperation happens, and it lets you do stuff you can't do without it, so it's worthwhile given how few general skills you get. Diving Catch is only good once you've got the skills you want and enough players that you don't have to field them all the time; until then (game 10-15), stay away. It is a good second skill on a Skink with Kick-Off Return, but that's a very unlikely player and only likely to occur late in a long season (so many skills, so few doubles rolls).

bouf · Post by **bouf** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:50 am

mattgslater wrote:HMP is a desperation skill.

Only if you use it that way. I use it as a tactic that other teams don't get to use (unless they also have HMP) Changing tactics is how you confuse teams and, more importantly, veteran coaches.

There are only a few teams where HMP pays off though... The important part is to see who will & who wont. All the stunty teams benefit because they can't pass for nothing and always seem to fumble anything longer than a quick pass. Now you can throw further than a long bomb and almost never fumble... Even in TZs & without Intercept attempts too. Throw to an empty square deep in their half with a few DTs in the way. Next trun, while the opponent is scrambling to catch up to the change in momentum, throw a runt into the area to pick up the ball and score! (or in the case of Skinks, just use your insane MA to run one in there)

It also works a treat for Skaven, Necros and Woodelves because they can use their high MA to get the other team out of position.
Slann were made for HMP since they start with DC, high AG and no Pass access.
Cage teams have been known to get it going too. Cage your thrower behind a handful of dwarves while your other guys set up a cage on the other end of the pitch and Hail it to them when you're ready.

HMP isn't about Desperation, but about Position. Every team can benefit if you can get your opponent out of position. If most of his team is your half of the pitch, you can HMP to an empty square and foot race to the TD. You just need position.

Wilf · Post by **Wilf** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:26 pm

Quadrasonic said: Also, if you have no skilled Saurus after 5 games, I really reccommend you givng them the ball every chance you get and get them SPPoints. They last a lot longer than Skinks do. I usually lose a skink per game, but after five games myself, I have 5 Saurus with a skill each, 3 of which are only a couple SPPoints from their second skills.

One of my saurus has scored a TD, because the ball got booted off the field. But unfortunately, thanks to the the justified removal of Bad Kick on the kick off table, the touchback is much less common I find.

And as for catching the ball, my skinks have enough trouble doing that themselves let alone AG1!

stormmaster1 · Post by **stormmaster1** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:05 pm

how many re-rolls do you have. The only time i played a Lizardman team i got re-rolls early (can't remember the exact lineup) and used them so i could block more. I blocked with my Sauri first almost every turn regardless of the ball. It only cost me 1 TD in my first 7-8 games, but meant i got a bundle of casualties and the Sauri skilled up quick. there's a risk of turnovers, but you need yo make blocks to skill up.

Sherlocko · Post by **Sherlocko** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:44 pm

I have 3 re-rolls(now) and I usually do the same thing. Ignore the ball first and perhaps second turn and just bash for the fun of it, but most of the times I have faced stuff with at least 8AV so it´s hard to inflict the pain needed. But I will try on.

Oh, and thanks alot for all the answers and the discussion wich evolved have been really intresting. I have settled for sure hands, HMP and DC wich makes me time have to following line-up

1 skink with sidestep and diving tackle(aka "the pain in the butt")
1 skink with catch
1 skink with HMP
1 skink with Diving Catch
1 skink with Sure Hands
1 skink
5 sauri(thinking of buying one more of these badboys)
1 kroxigor
4 or 5 in FF
3 re-rolls
1 apo

nothing more, just 120k in the treasury.

Pil · Post by **Pil** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:30 pm

Well, a bit late but I would have chosen the same thing. The Sure Hands really saves a lot of rerolls/turnovers (whichever you prefer), and the HMP makes the passing game at least something of an option (which AG3 and stunty don't). Also, you can easily upgrade your diving catcher with catch as it's an agility skill. I'm still waiting for a second double on my skinks (already have sure hands), but if it comes along I'll most certainly take HMP

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:18 pm

Does your rookie Skink have any points? You need another Side Step guy to have the Supercombo Cornerbacks of Absolute Annoyingness.

Sherlocko · Post by **Sherlocko** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:51 pm

Of course he have, he is a skink.

Yeah, I love it, took sidestep on my first skink and most games it always come handy.

Brokje · Post by **Brokje** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:35 am

Hi there!

Congrats on the rolls!
I think Sure Hands is an easy choice. Especially with unskilled Sauri you want to save the rerolls for blocking. Even with skills, the Sauri can be in need of rerolls to get down crucial players (read: Wardancers).

If you have to play against a lot of teams that cage, I recommend Dauntless or Strip Ball (Both?) to get the ball from the carrier. Block is always a good choice, but don't underestimate Wrestle for getting the ball from a Block carrier.

Kick is always a wise choice, Kick can win games. However, with Lizardmen you want to give Blocking Skills to the Sauri (and Break Tackle, of course). When a Skink rolls a double, it is hard to sacrifice it for Kick. I almost never take Dirty Player. I need my guys on the field, so I hardly foul with my Lizzies (prone Wardancers aside, of course).

Finally HMP. I agree it can be a very valuable skill. Especially against slow teams you can then make full use of your above average speed. However, against agile teams it is much less useful, so I think it depends on the League you play in.

Good luck!
M