Bull centaurs first advance....a different route

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:49 pm

With a 130k player, I'd go Block over Juggernaut any day, though if you're for some reason committing to not going with Block, Juggernaut is something vaguely like a pale shadow of an alternative. Block can keep him up and keep him from getting fouled out. Break Tackle is a good first or second choice; for the first BC it might be a better first choice. Block/Frenzy isn't as good, but does make a nice alternate route, as does Block/Mighty Blow.

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:14 am

Block is good, BUT I think the coach is out for something new/diffrent!

We all complain about "beardy, lazey, poons" in another thread where we discuss the boring games against dwarfplayers, trying to have some diffrent style of gaming we just get back to the standard Block/Guard bla bla bla.....

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:52 am

I agree. You're right that the game as a whole would be better without Block.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:50 am

Ummm... that's not what he said.

Block is overpowered. Everybody takes Block. I agree with both of those. Would the game be better off without the Block skill? I don't think so. I like the idea of having one clear-best G skill.

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:00 am

mattgslater wrote:Ummm... that's not what he said.

Block is overpowered. Everybody takes Block. I agree with both of those. Would the game be better off without the Block skill? I don't think so. I like the idea of having one clear-best G skill.

Why on earth do you like such conformity in a game? I wish Block cost 30 thousand so people have to think twice before taking it (I'd also make guard cost 30 thousand). It would add mor variety to the game.

How about this (and I'm sure this belongs on another thread):
Since we get random cards when we buy inducements, how about we get random skills when we skill up. You'd definitely have some interesting combinations. You could pick the category, but then you'd have to roll for the ability. Don't like the skill your lineman just got? Fire 'em!

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:05 am

It's one clear best any skill. Far and away the best. And in later throes of the league when everyone has it it slows the game down. Everyone is still standing at the end of the turn. The game definately suffer for having Block in it. My opinion. You don't have to like it. Part of the problem with Dwarves is not only the starting with Block but the avaliability of ST skills. There is NO other choice for an AG2 MV4 Lineman that already has Block AND Tackle but to take Guard. Ho hum. Let's at least make them EARN something.

oh and let's remove Block from the game.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:06 am

datalorex wrote:
mattgslater wrote:Ummm... that's not what he said.

Block is overpowered. Everybody takes Block. I agree with both of those. Would the game be better off without the Block skill? I don't think so. I like the idea of having one clear-best G skill.
Why on earth do you like such conformity in a game? I wish Block cost 30 thousand so people have to think twice before taking it (I'd also make guard cost 30 thousand). It would add mor variety to the game.

How about this (and I'm sure this belongs on another thread):
Since we get random cards when we buy inducements, how about we get random skills when we skill up. You'd definitely have some interesting combinations. You could pick the category, but then you'd have to roll for the ability. Don't like the skill your lineman just got? Fire 'em!

This is good. I like it.

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:10 am

It's an easy one to playtest. Start a new team and load up on wrestle. If only skinks had G access, I'd have a full roster of wrestlers. I'd be willing to put money on a team of 11 skinks with wrestle beating 90% of bashy teams 6-0 (or better).

grampyseer · Post by **grampyseer** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:17 pm

So, I'm hearing juggernaut....break tackle....maybe mighty blow.

has anyone tried any odd doubles skills or mutations?

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:21 pm

grampyseer wrote:So, I'm hearing juggernaut....break tackle....maybe mighty blow.

has anyone tried any odd doubles skills or mutations?

BCs can't take mutations. Dodge is the only worthwhile double IMO, and only if you already have break tackle and block, and even then its not worth 30K over Guard or MB or Strip Ball for 20K.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:32 pm

datalorex wrote:Why on earth do you like such conformity in a game?

To some extent, conformity ~ balance. It's not the only way to balance a game, and the balance doesn't have to be perfect, but small variations on a theme can be just as fun as big ones and can make life much easier on designers and consumers alike. Some variation is necessary, of course, and the variations on the themes should change up a lot, but the similarities can outweigh the differences as long as the differences are obvious and meaningful.

datalorex wrote:I wish Block cost 30 thousand so people have to think twice before taking it (I'd also make guard cost 30 thousand). It would add mor variety to the game.

How about this (and I'm sure this belongs on another thread):
Since we get random cards when we buy inducements, how about we get random skills when we skill up. You'd definitely have some interesting combinations. You could pick the category, but then you'd have to roll for the ability. Don't like the skill your lineman just got? Fire 'em!

I like both of those, actually. I like the first one better, though, having found the latter to be more frustrating than inspiring in Necromunda.

falconeyed · Post by **falconeyed** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:45 pm

ianwilliams wrote:
PubBowler wrote:I'd take Break Tackle on both Bulls as a 1st skill. Then Block.

But apart from that I agree with Joemanji...
I'm the same - BT first on both. With Wrestle & Juggernaut now available I think either might be a better choice for BCs than block (you are effectively MA9 - so wrestle is a good option).

Wouldn't you consider a BC too valuable of a piece to give Wrestle? The gang foul seems a knee jerk response to me.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:34 am

On a 130k ST4 player who often anchors cages and blitzes Throwers, there is no substitute for Block. Juggernaut, if you really squint, is maybe better than nothing, but Wrestle is a hazard on that player (though you would certainly get use out of it). If you're not going to do Block, maybe it's best to do something totally different, rather than trying to compensate for not having Block.

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:05 am

falconeyed wrote:
ianwilliams wrote:
PubBowler wrote:I'd take Break Tackle on both Bulls as a 1st skill. Then Block.

But apart from that I agree with Joemanji...
I'm the same - BT first on both. With Wrestle & Juggernaut now available I think either might be a better choice for BCs than block (you are effectively MA9 - so wrestle is a good option).
Wouldn't you consider a BC too valuable of a piece to give Wrestle? The gang foul seems a knee jerk response to me.

I would think wrestle would be most used to strip the ball from a player. Therefore, your opponent would be more interested in getting the ball back and not fouling a BC.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:41 pm

datalorex wrote:
falconeyed wrote:
ianwilliams wrote: I'm the same - BT first on both. With Wrestle & Juggernaut now available I think either might be a better choice for BCs than block (you are effectively MA9 - so wrestle is a good option).
Wouldn't you consider a BC too valuable of a piece to give Wrestle? The gang foul seems a knee jerk response to me.
I would think wrestle would be most used to strip the ball from a player. Therefore, your opponent would be more interested in getting the ball back and not fouling a BC.

Ahhh, the words of inexperience. Here's how you do it. Secure the ball w/ TZs. It's probably pretty close to the down BC, right? Use those TZs on the ball as assists for the foul. Remove the BC from the pitch. Waltz a guy in and pick up the ball.

You have the ball and removed a BC your opponent conviently laid on your plate.