Lizardmen advice

[SillySod]

The Krox (IMO) is possibly up there with the R/Ogre as one of the best big guys

Well, that rat ogre is a terrible big guy but I'll agree that the krox is a really good one. If you get doubles on the krox then seriously consider diving tackle, without using a blitz action you can basicly pin a single player. DT makes great use of the high move, just keep them backfield and latch them onto whatever you find the most annoying.... gutter runners, vampires, whatever. Players will cry if you pin something which is carrying the ball because with -3 to dodge they arent going anywhere. Dont block unless you have to once you are pinning something because you might skull out or bonehead.

6 Saurus, 3 re-rolls from the start is solid since it helps them skill, partly though mvps.

[PubBowler]

The Krox (IMO) is possibly up there with the R/Ogre as one of the best big guys

Well, that rat ogre is a terrible big guy but I'll agree that the krox is a really good one.

I don't tend to have a high opinion of Rat Ogres (although I do reckon that a Krox is the third best big guy after Beast of Nurgle & Snow Troll) but after playing in a tournie where I played two good coaches (Blitzwing & Long Shot) with Juggernaut ROs I have reassessed my position somewhat.

[Glowworm]

The Krox (IMO) is possibly up there with the R/Ogre as one of the best big guys

Well, that rat ogre is a terrible big guy but I'll agree that the krox is a really good one.

but after playing in a tournie where I played two good coaches (Blitzwing & Long Shot) with Juggernaut ROs I have reassessed my position somewhat.

never used a R/O myself but have suffered at the hands (Claws) of one!! The Krox is in fact 20K cheaper,I was lucky mine got doubles for 2nd skill, had given him guard so went with Block. played against H/E last night and ran out 3-1 winner altho thier coach is still quite inexperienced. Only problem now is wish Id have taken DT instead of Block, however my Saurus are all getting wrestle instead of block (just trying out something different, both down is great for line breaking when you want to dodge skinks through and your opponent is tackle heavy, by the time they get up you can have 3 skinks in their back field)

Still reckon if you can squeeze a Krox in at the start then you should!

[tenwit]

If you get doubles on the krox then seriously consider diving tackle, without using a blitz action you can basicly pin a single player.

Wouldn't they just block you then? ST5 isn't that great.. And why risk hitting the ground? You need to avoid a bonehead just to stand up.
Even Tackle would be better than DT imo. Cancelling Dodge makes PT that bit more effective, and it's helpful when blocking. But Block is definitely the doubles skill of choice.

[whitetiger]

I think the first double on any BG should be Block. It's definately the best overall skill for a bashy kind of player.

[SillySod]

If your opponent needs to use a 2D against block (or 3D with gutters/catchers) to free their player then I think you're getting a good deal, its risky and will cost them either their move or their teams blitz action for the turn. Diving Tackle is also better than tackle for this purpose because:

Elf dodging away from prehensile tail + tackle = 2/3 chance of success, may re-roll with team re-roll
Elf dodging away from prehensile tail + divint tackle = 5/9 change of success, no re-roll

Taking tackle gives your opponent a better chance of success even before they use a team re-roll, even if the elf has dodge.

[Andromidius]

Um, doesn't Tackle remove the reroll not Diving Tackle?

~Andromidius

[SillySod]

Um, doesn't Tackle remove the reroll not Diving Tackle?

~Andromidius

Yes, but I already included that into the probability. If they have to use a team re-roll to get that probability of escape then

[PubBowler]

On the Tackle vs Diving Tackle debate it's worth bearing in mind that Tackle has an effect on blocks as well.

Which could be very helpful, not least because you're not going to have Block if you just spent your double on one of the tackles.

It's also worth bearing in mind that Block is useful against everyone, the tackles are useless against some and doesn't help get SPPs.

Just other things to think about...

[tenwit]

I don't understand this bit:

Elf dodging away from prehensile tail + divint tackle = 5/9 change of success, no re-roll

Dodge gives a reroll on this skill. So do TRRs. With Tackle, the Elf is forced to use a TRR (if he still has one) on failure. If DT is used to stop the first dodge attempt, the Dodge skill (or TRR) may still be used for a second attempt. Sure, the -2 DT penalty still applies, but even a Treeman has a 1/6 chance of making the dodge.

To be honest, I don't think it matters too much. Most of the time, the krox will have been deliberately tied up by the 0spp elf lineman anyway, and dodging away will be the last thing on his mind.

[Jural]

I don't understand this bit:

Elf dodging away from prehensile tail + divint tackle = 5/9 change of success, no re-roll

Dodge gives a reroll on this skill. So do TRRs. With Tackle, the Elf is forced to use a TRR (if he still has one) on failure. If DT is used to stop the first dodge attempt, the Dodge skill (or TRR) may still be used for a second attempt. Sure, the -2 DT penalty still applies, but even a Treeman has a 1/6 chance of making the dodge.

To be honest, I don't think it matters too much. Most of the time, the krox will have been deliberately tied up by the 0spp elf lineman anyway, and dodging away will be the last thing on his mind.

He means that an elf dodging away from PT and DT needs to roll a 5. With the Dodge skill, he will only roll a 5 or higher 5/9 of the time, because he has Dodge, he will never burn a TRR in this process. So 5/9 is the BEST the dodging player can hope for.

If the Krox had PT and Tackle, the odds of getting away are 50%, or 75% if you use a team re-roll. So DT is almost as good as Tackle if the player doesn't want to use a re-roll, and significantly better if the player would have used one.

But all in all, I still choose tackle over DT. Going prone carries with it a 1/6 chance of not standing up next turn, and I just don't want that for my Krox.

[tenwit]

He means that an elf dodging away from PT and DT needs to roll a 5. With the Dodge skill, he will only roll a 5 or higher 5/9 of the time, because he has Dodge, he will never burn a TRR in this process. So 5/9 is the BEST the dodging player can hope for.

The best would be that he gets the 5+ on the second roll.. not only does he get away, he leaves the krox on the ground. Oh yea. All those other elves in his TZs are now free to walk away without hinderance.

[SillySod]

He means that an elf dodging away from PT and DT needs to roll a 5. With the Dodge skill, he will only roll a 5 or higher 5/9 of the time, because he has Dodge, he will never burn a TRR in this process. So 5/9 is the BEST the dodging player can hope for.

That is correct, and it costs either a skill or a re-roll to get.

If the Krox had PT and Tackle, the odds of getting away are 50%, or 75% if you use a team re-roll. So DT is almost as good as Tackle if the player doesn't want to use a re-roll, and significantly better if the player would have used one.

You are now talking about a different player? Last time I checked an elf dodging away from a prehensile tail only needed a 3+ or 2/3 chance of success. So doding away from the tackler is actually easier even before a team re-roll (2/3=6/9). Also note that when you bring an elf down you only go down with them half of the time and vs AG3 or worse you'll go down from it even less. Also also note that tackles usefulness is totally dependant on your opponent having dodge, not only is diving tackle straight better, it works on everyone.

Sure, it wont work all the time but your opponent is going to have to take some serious risks if they want to break the stranglehold. If you have your opponent relying on "well, if I get this.." rather than "I should get this..." then you can bet its a powerful skill.

[tenwit]

Correct solution to knotty problem: play Slann and put a blitzer beside your krox. Now both players can get Block and everyone will be satisfied.

[Jural]

If the Krox had PT and Tackle, the odds of getting away are 50%, or 75% if you use a team re-roll. So DT is almost as good as Tackle if the player doesn't want to use a re-roll, and significantly better if the player would have used one.

You are now talking about a different player?

Oops, switched to diving tackle and no prehensile tail for some reason!

Either way, DT is much better in the situation, but doesn't leave the Krox prone ever and forces teams to use their TRR's... Plus it's useful blocking. But obviously, only if the other team has lots of dodge.