Orcs vs Next Opponent Tactics

[whitetiger]

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[/quote]

Use this defensive line up to protect your Blitzers. Keeps them from being blitzed and they then can react to the offensive moves of your opponant. The BoBs can control the wide zones, with help, and the blitzers can nail anything coming up the middle.

Definately take out the gobbo, elf and Skaven. Then target the marauders. I'd leave the troll alone, just avoid him, take on the Mino when its to your advantage. Avoid fighting it out on the line. Beat up his little guys, avoid the big ones, take out the fast ones.

[Big Daddy]

I prefer to have a sweeper or two further back. It might not be the most efficient but I find it has worked well for me in the past. I don't want to get tied up on the line and have the skaven or DE in my backfield.

Hanging my thrower with block out on the peripheral doesn't seem like a great idea either...

[whitetiger]

Unless his DE or Skaven has leap, they'll have to fight their way through the line. Your blitzers are deep enough that they'll be able to catch and down any catcher type player that gets through.

You're thrower is tucked behind a BOB. The BOB should be able to protect him and then the thrower is there to give an extra boost to the BOB's strength and blocks. By stepping him back a square, he can't get surfed.

[Big Daddy]

Thanks for the further explanation. I understand what you are trying to achieve with that set-up better now. I still like my deeper safeties, it gives me more option of where to steer my defence. I'd rather keep my blitzers moving forward and let the throwers sit on anyone who makes it through the line or reinforce or exploit weaknesses at my discretion.

I like the staggered set up on the wings now that I see how it avoids the crowd push. A valuable lesson now I understand it.

Thanks

I think I'll run with something like this

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[whitetiger]

The danger of that set up is that it leaves your blitzers open to be targets of blitzes and you could end up with something like this, at best, if the other guy just gets pushes. If he stuns, or knocks out, a player, now there's a wide open hole. Hence the reason I put a LM in front of the blitzers.

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[Craigtw]

The danger of that set up is that it leaves your blitzers open to be targets of blitzes and you could end up with something like this, at best, if the other guy just gets pushes. If he stuns, or knocks out, a player, now there's a wide open hole. Hence the reason I put a LM in front of the blitzers.

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Your set up is confusing and illegal.... too many on the sidelines and not enough on the line of screamage.

[whitetiger]

That is not a set up. That's what happens to his set up after his opponant takes his first turn. The linemen are moved back and to the inside, the blitzer is blitzed and moved back and to the outside. Thus creating a hole for catcher-ball carrier types to scoot thru right off.

[bouf]

If anyone gets injured or K/Oed, there will be a hole regardless...

You can't make good plans for what happens after turn 1.

The set up he went with leaves 2 players deep to fill that pocket and hopefully blitz down anyone who thinks they get through that hole.

Its a textbook set up IMO.

[Big Daddy]

I'm with bouf here fella's. You are gonna have holes if the block dice are against you. I'd rather retain flexibilty and try to recover the ball on D. If you can get the ball back and score when you kick you improve your chance of winning the game by a huge amount. The idea is to let the lineman soak up the blocking from the big guys and pray for bad really stupid/bonehead/wild animal rolls and poor armour breaks.

As for the blitzers...well unless he uses his Mino they are most likely gonna be 1 dice blitzes and none of his guys have block...guys with block at that position are a solid pick IME.

Those 11 man up on the LOS set-up look like a good way to get stuck in a LOS bash fest against 3 big guys. I certainly want to avoid that until/unless I have a solid numerical advantage. I'm gonna try to play this one like Shaka Zulu

[whitetiger]

Avoiding a bash contest on the LOS is why you put the LM in front of the blitzers. It protects the blitzers from getting involved with the LOS and they can move to the point they're needed. Same with the BOBs in front of the outside men. Protects from a crowd surf and you have 2 more players who are free to move. In the set up you have, all of your players but the deep safeties can be tied up on the first turn by your opponant and you'll only have 2 players to react.

[jammydodger]

In the set up you have, all of your players but the deep safeties can be tied up on the first turn by your opponant and you'll only have 2 players to react.

just thought it was worth pointing out that the same is true of your own defence - everyone but the two blitzers can be tied up. whilst your own players are closer to the front line this actually makes one of them easier to tie up - with a blitz for example. bouf's deep blitzers would be 'safer' if the speed of the blitzing player etc. isn't enough to catch them.

secondly there is almost no defence that will completely prevent a break through, even only with pushes. the centre of your own set-up is a weak point which could be exploited without even that much clever positioning. that teamed with good use of the big guys on a chaos team could effective force you to dodge all but two of your players out out of tackles zones, and with a short kick allow the offence to have built a pocket with minimal difficulty, tied up most of your players and limited your counter-response. not the best situation. (if you want me to explain how i did this, i'm happy to go through it move by move)

if an unskilled chaos pact team is attempting a throwing play you probably have the advantage - their ball handling skills aren't great to start with and without pass, catch and no ag4 you'll be pretty safe. instead look for a running play, since this is much more stable with a mv6 team, who will have the edge on an orc team, and will be able to cage quite safely, by using whatever big guys they have.

however, i have to say that'd i'd be suprised if he ever took a single die blitz (bigdaddy's last post). both the block and blitz necessary for white tigers re-arrangement, and similarly for my own would be two dice, no matter who was blitzing. in fact i wouldn't dream of using a mino to blitz, not when he can block and not wast my blitz if things go wrong.

as white tiger said, the lm covering the blitzer helps keep them mobile. the bob have a commanding position in the wings, although they can be tied up very easily, keeping them from playing any useful role and thus denying your team one of its basic strengths: strength!

i hope this game goes well for you and that the advice on tbb is helpful. be sure to post how the game went, i'm sure we'd all like to know.

jammer / cws

[Big Daddy]

Thank for the further input guys. A pretty detailed analysis there Steve thanks for taking the time.

I've got the BoB's out on the flanks because I'm not going to dominate a strength match on the LOS. I can't see an awful lot of benefit to exposing the BoB's to the mighty blow of the big guys in that situation. I would rather be slighty out of position but making 2d blocks against marauders than have my S4 in the cas box. If I can get some of his players off the pitch early it is going to make every wild animal/really stupid/bone head roll that much more crucial for him. He is going to take 2d or 3d blocks on the LOS regardless of my set-up. Forcing him to give away 2d on the flanks is a solid strategy IMO particularly when I have the advantage in Block skill and have 4TRR to his 2TRR.

If I get a numerical advantage at some point there may be some merit in taking it up to the big guys but it really needs to be a point where I am dictating the play. If he decides to split his big guys to go after my BoBs I think it will really work to my advantage.

I play tonight so I'll post to let you know how I got on

[Jural]

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I believe this is what Whitetiger was referring to, it seems to have been corrupted in his later post.

[whitetiger]

The second set up I have up there is what happens with just pushes at the line on the opponant's first turn with his set up. The linemen get pushes one way, the blitzer gets pushed the other way, and a major hole opens up.

There is no such thing as a perfect defense, especially if the opposition gets a lot of pow die. But there isn't a lot of sense allowing a major hole with just pushes either. That's why I put a lino in front of the blitzers in the set up I put up. It protects your best defensive players from getting hammered on the first turn and gives you a chance to react and close any hole they open.

And so what if 3 linos get into a hammer contest with the Chaos Pact's 3 Big Guys at the line. That's what the linos are there for, to soak up that attention.

[Big Daddy]

Whitetiger - I understood the diagrams You see a potential hole as being a big problem. I don't necessarily see it that way. With the two sweepers, there's a good chance that it will actually give me a shot at hurting the Dark Elf or the skaven if they look to exploit it. I'm big on giving my opponent options. At least they have to make decisions.

I think we are just tackling the problem from different angles. You seem to be angling for a rock solid "none shall pass" type of defence. I prefer to play a more dynamic (and risky) defence where I also improve my chances of creating a turn-over and recovering the ball.

No problem with the 3 lino's taking their lumps, as you say that is what they are there for. I see at least 2 more linemen getting sucked into the big guy maelstrom in your set-up which I don't particularly want to do.

We'll know how it pans out after tonight's game and you can give me a big raspberry if I get whooped