Orc team Development

[dr. evil]

You can't go wrong with block, guard and tackle. I would get the troll though. He is pretty good as part of the cage cause someone will always be next to him.

[Cramy]

Give Frenzy to one of the Blitzers. It really opens-up options. Then Mighty Blow. With two chances of getting the opponent on the ground, you get to use Mighty Blow more often. I like Tackle on such a player as well depending on your opponents.

[mattgslater]

The Blitzer with nothing, I'd go Frenzy first, then Mighty Blow. The one with Tackle and the one with Guard/Tackle would get Stand Firm next, were it me, so they can hang out nearest to the WZs: get the Guard/Tackle/SF guy next to the Frenzy guy once you have both.

For BOBs, I'd give the next one Block and the other two Stand Firm. For the Troll, I'd open with Guard (yeah, you lose it if you go stupid, but on the first turn of D that's not an issue).

[DoubleSkulls]

Don't worry about the lack of doubles. Orcs don't need them until later you've exhausted the best of general & strength.

I like my first two BOBs to skill up go Guard then Block, then Mighty Blow or Stand Firm. The next two go Block, then guard, then mighty blow or stand firm. There really aren't any better skills available to them even on doubles until 3rd or 4th skill up when sidestep, diving tackle and dodge are useful.

Blitzers have lots of good choice that you want to balance out. Tackle, frenzy, mighty blow, guard, stand firm are all good.

I like to give line orcs wrestle over block, just because you won't give it to anyone else and the wrestle/tackle combo is very useful. They are also handy with dirty player or kick, but most of the time I'll take Block or Wrestle first since they won't skill up otherwise.

Buy the troll. A guard, stand firm troll, backed up by 4 guarding BOBs is almost unbreakable for a lot of teams. He is unreliable, but use him as road block and only block with him at the end of a turn (conversely if he's moving move him early so you can compensate for a failed stupid roll).

Throwers. I like a long passing thrower - accurate, strong arm on doubles, safe throw etc. This gives you options on offence for quick ball movement that can be handy. The other thrower should be more a runner - block, fend, dodge on doubles. Kick off return is useful on either of them.

Goblins - get one after you've got the troll and generally don't use him except for a one turn attempt at the end of half.

After the goblin you probably don't need any more players unless your league is very brutal.

[Zoglug]

Bit of thread necromancy but better to keep it here than start a new thread. Well the league finished and i ended up 3rd with 6 wins, 1 draw and 3 losses which i was very pleased with. The last league i finished last with Dwarves 1 draw and 6 losses!!! The team will now move from our Premier eague to the Vets League, so will continue to grow hopefully:

01 Blitzer - Tackle
02 Blitzer - Guard
03 Blitzer - Guard, Tackle
04 Blitzer - (normal skill)
05 Lineorc - Block, AV 8
06 Lineorc - Block
07 Thrower - Block, Accurate
08 Black Orc - Block, (double skill)
09 Black Orc - Block
10 Black Orc - Block
11 Black Orc
12 Lineorc
13 Troll

3 Rerolls
Fan Factor - 7

My final game i picked up a normal skill on my 4th Blitzer, for which ill more than likely take Frenzy, although that skill does get me into a lot of trouble! I also picked up accurate on the thrower for when i do try to pass (i made 3 completions throughout the league!) and interestingly a double skill on one of my blocking Black Orcs. Im unsure whether i should utilise the double skill or just take good old fashioned Guard.

[cyagen]

Refuse the double on the BO, take guard and watch your opponents giving him waaaay to much attention.

I would go with Mighty blow or guard on the Blitzer, frenzy is OK but I usually take it as a 3rd skill for my tackle-MB catcher killer.

[Andromidius]

I might also suggest firing the AV8 LineOrc. Or at least keeping him on the bench as much as possibly until you get a replacement. AV8 is just going to make him a target.

But Mighty Blow on the Blitzer and Guard on the Black Orc sounds perfect. Black Orcs don't need doubles. At least not until their 4th of 5th skill, then you give them Dodge (purely to help them stay on their feet).

~Andromidius

[mattgslater]

Bit of thread necromancy...

If you don't have to go back a page, it's not necromancy.

04 Blitzer - (normal skill)
08 Black Orc - Block, (double skill)

4: Frenzy (2nd choice: Mighty Blow), Stand Firm next
8: Side Step (distant 2nd: Guard), Frenzy next if "next" ever comes (or Stand Firm if you take Guard).

That's what I'd do. Put #8 in at inside linebacker, where the opponent might otherwise be tempted to blitz. Then, when #1 and #4 go up again, give them Stand Firm (or give one SF and then get Fend for a lino). With the Guard guys protecting them, your oppo can't go wide. With the SS BOB in place clogging one path and Guard-protected Stand Firmers on both corners, you can dictate a strong side to your opponent, letting you differentiate your safeties without fear of getting caught out of position. This also gets a

If you have a BOB with Block, the bit about ignoring doubles just doesn't apply. ST4/Block/SS means that blocking the player is an act of desperation. Then when he gets Guard, look out. Keep him off the line against Grabby teams, and you'll see him force all kinds of suboptimal matchups. Put him on the line at one end against ST3 teams, and the opponent simply must go the other way. Put the Troll on at the other end, and it's Leap, Wide Zone, or bust. Put up a good WZ defense, and it's Leap or bust.

Alternately, once you've got Kick on a lino you can set #8 up at inside linebacker (next to WZ or one in from the WZ line), putting the Troll in at the nose. The other side linebacker (a BOB with Block) will get blitzed, sure, but now you know which way they're going, so you know they'll build a strong side. Put your Frenzy corner guy on the same side as the BOB, which nine times out of ten will be the weak side, protected by Guard/Tackle boy. Then kick shallow on that side, and you'll recover a lot of balls (or at least force burned actions and lateral QPs to get the ball out of blitzing range, which risks turnovers and burned TRRs)

Maybe it's time to get a Goblin? Having a Thrower, a Goblin and a Lino with Block (and hopefully Kick soon) available as a Safety rotation allows you to change up for all seasons. If you like the idea of a Goblin safety, the two best skills for him are Diving Tackle and Sneaky Git, IMO, and the best follow-up for Diving Tackle is Side Step.

I don't agree with Andromidius at all about the AV8 Lino. I say keep #5 alive. If it was any other characteristic, I'd say cut him, but AV losses and niggling injuries take care of themselves, if you know what I mean. If you're worried about lost actions, don't. For every nine times this guy gets knocked over, you give up an Injury roll that you wouldn't have given up otherwise. Whoopty-doo. Don't get him knocked over nine times. That does mean that you should be hesitant to fill in with him on the nose or at cornerback, so maybe he should go for Kick while #6 gets Fend so he can play fill-in.

[DoubleSkulls]

Matt and I will continue to disagree here. IMO Guard is by far the best skill on BOBs - I'd often take it before block even. Once they've got Guard & Block you can start thinking about useful skills - Stand Firm or Mighty Blow and Sidestep or dodge on doubles.

[DoubleSkulls]

oh, frenzy or mighty blow on the blitzer.

I'd not get rid of the line orc until you have at least the 2nd thrower and a goblin. 15 players may be too many (depends on the violence of the league) and so he'd be the obvious candidate at this point.

[mattgslater]

I used to think like Ian, and I still don't think Guard would be a terrible mistake: it's a powerful skill, and it's good to put it on a guy your oppo doesn't want to block, like a BOB. But if you put Guard on the guy who's going to take the first hit, you get nothing for it. BOBs are best when you put them where they're going to get hit, because that's where you get maximum mileage. But you can't use Guard on yourself.

[Marlow]

because that's where you get maximum mileage. But you can't use Guard on yourself.

Which is why you generally need several players with the skill so they can cover each other.

I have not played a lot of Orcs, however I think Guard is the easier skill to use whereas Stand Firm is better at stopping Agility teams since it will hopefully force them to dodge as they become unable to push BoB's out of the way.

[mattgslater]

Side Step has three basic advantages:

1) Pushing SS players out of the way is not usually an option; even if the guy goes down, he has to get taken off the board to keep from clogging a lane. That's usually 1/6 to break AV, and 10/36 to KO/cas: 1/21.6, or a little under 5%, so with a 5/9 to knockdown it becomes, what, 2.6%? That's very scary against elves, as it's a surefire way to prevent a hole.

2) Getting blocked with SS can move you to convenient nearby positions. Move him up on a cage, and your opponent won't know what to do, as a push result puts him in the ball-carrier's TZ. You do need some Guard still, but remember that SS can spare this guy's assist/pull-off, which is better than Guard if the oppo has a chance to block you off.

3) SS can be used to prevent chain-blocking, which is helpful on the line against very aggressive teams, at least if the opponent doesn't have any Grab.

A downside of Guard: if you can't get a tackle zone, Guard is no help. If you like to use your BOBs to protect safeties by putting them behind, there's no-one to Guard.

A diagram might help. Numbers are BOBs. I didn't differentiate Trolls from Throwers... it should be obvious which is which.

Code: Select all

An Orc defense often looks like this, more-or-less, give-or-take...
- - - -|- - 1 T 2 - -|- - - -
- - B -|- 3 - - - 4 - |- B - -
- B - -|T - - - - - L|- - B -

Sure there's some variation for opponent type or skill selection or whatever, and maybe you could move 3 and 4 outside one square... but whatever, you see a lot of that basic D. The Thrower and Blitzer inside are protected, but BOBs 3 and 4 can't use Guard effectively on defensive turn 1 (remember, turn 1 is key) except vs. Frenzy against 1 and 2, or if 1 or two is pushed, remains standing and gets followed on (or deliberately not followed on strictly because of Guard). That's very situational. 1 and 2 can use it, but if they don't both have Block and Guard, and if the Troll doesn't have Guard, then opponents will just hit the Guard guy. If one of your other Block BOBs is close to going up, it makes a tad more sense, but I'd still take SS on doubles.

Guard is good for making it harder to block other guys, but smart opponents will get to make choice blocks anyway. Guard is also good against super-strong teams like Khemri, but SS will prevent chain blocks on a full third of all blocks made, which is as good as Guard defensively.

Of course, if you set up some other way, none of that applies... maybe. But the reality is, the fundamental principle of all Orc skills doesn't change: prevent all forward movement and you will win.

[DoubleSkulls]

Fundamentally I believe Guard is the better choice. For me the only thing that stops all BOBs being guard/block (or block/guard) for the 1st two skill ups would be +ST. IMO nothing else is as good and they progress so slowly that if you delay Block/Guard until 31 SPPs then you'll have to be playing a very long term strategy and you are probably going to have a worse team in the mean time.

Guard on BOBs is important because it allows you to dominate the blocking war. Matt is much more interested in positioning, which is fair enough. However in my mind if you win the blocking and are always playing opponents who are outnumbered its pretty easy to dominate positioning too.

Many teams struggle to get effective blocking against S4 players. So Guard is most effective on a BOB because he's difficult to move. Lots of Guarding BOBs is a nightmare even for other strength teams since generally Orc teams have equal or better raw strength, and lots of guard reinforces that problem. Lizards have better strength - but generally can't field as much guard as Orcs so you ought to be able to win the blocking war. Khemri are the only team who really can out muscle Orcs on a regular basis, and they can be beaten because the rest of their team is generally worse.

In particular on Orc teams you start off with players who are good at hitting (the blitzer) and have easy access to the other damage causing skills (frenzy,tackle,mighty blow,etc). That means you can use your BOBs to assist - and tie up multiple opponents - whilst the Blitzers do all the real damage.

Side step on a BOB is, in my view, a very low value skill against flair teams since they won't hit him. However Guard means he can go and stand next to a couple of opponent players and then support the blitzers doing the damage. Guard on the other hand is by and far the best skill in blocking wars.

For me sidestep is also a marginal choice against dodge. BOBs have access to Stand Firm which is about 80% as good as SS - and adds 20k to TV, instead of 30k.

[Marlow]

For me sidestep is also a marginal choice against dodge. BOBs have access to Stand Firm which is about 80% as good as SS - and adds 20k to TV, instead of 30k.

While Sidesteping into a cage is good, I also struggle to see the real value in taking Sidestep over Stand Firm on a BoB. Most of the time I think it is better having them holding a postion rather than moving.