Life without TRRs....

[ceetee]

Alright, Hands up, who didn't look up fingerspitzgefuhl?

[Duke Jan]

I guess it's fingerspitzengefühl for people missing 9 fingers so I didn't. Whether losing those 9 fingers has anything to do with a lack of fingerspitzengefühl I haven't quite decided upon yet.

[Jural]

Alright, Hands up, who didn't look up fingerspitzgefuhl?

I looked it up, but haven't found a definition (translation.)

[plasmoid]

Roughly translated it means "sensation in the fingers".
It's the ability to generally do the correct thing in the situation.

I real german can probably explain it better

[Duke Jan]

It is the type of sensitivity you need screw a bolt finger tight.

[s031720]

Gut feeling would be the correct translation I guess.

Just didnt think the BB-crowd was that illiterate..

[stashman]

Rerolls are needed, no matter what!

Even if I play safe, my opponents in my league are good and there is always a dice roll you have to make, and that dice roll needs a reroll sometime, or rather often.

But I do play more safe once the rerolls are out.

I have played a halfling team with a masterchef and the 400K card where rerolls are gone on a 2+ and I only hade my Leader left. The game turned out diffrently, even against Halflings. I picked upp the ball with my throwers, instead of my gutter runners, just becuse of sure hands.

And I didn't try to pass, just walk safe and score, and the match ended 3-3

My teams have lots of rerolls: skaven 5, vampire 5, goblin 5, dwarf 5, orc 5, undead 5, lizardmen 4 (going for one more), chaos dwarf 4 (+leader), wood elf 4 (going to get leader), dark elf 4 (need one more, but I will get leader instead)

[AK_Dave]

Sure, the easy concept is you do the more important, less risk stuff first, and the least important, high risk stuff you just avoid doing altogether or do late.

Important blocks, important player positioning, important ball handling, all that happens first. Reroll or no reroll. Then the less important, but still not-so-risky blocks (2D with skill, for example, or 2D and no skill on either side). Then you start looking at maybe some 1D blocks, away from the ball, doesn't matter much if you flub it, don't care if it produces a turnover, its just a chance for a guy to get a hit in.

Thats how I play rerolls or no rerolls.

The difference is in where you draw the "risky, safe" line with the important plays. But I draw that line in my head without regard for TRR, so the TRR only factors in when it comes down to a really outlandish play being the only thing that can possibly work. In which case, I'm going to do it anyways and the TRR just gives me an extra boost of confidence that it is possible. But I'm throwing that Long Bomb needing a 5+ regardless of the TRR, because its the only way to score. TRR just improves my odds.

I really don't think that having or not having TRRs makes a big difference in the way I play. I do the stats in my head as I go. The better play is still statistically better with or without a TRR. If TRRs open up anything for me it is the really ballsy moves, 2D-negative, 1D-against-skill, fouls, stuff like that. Maybe a turn-8 "I can't score but I can get a completion on a lineman" moves.

Okay, here's where a TRR might sway me from my pre-determined path. Say I have two ways to get the job done, one has a guy with a skill reroll and the other doesn't. I dodge out with this guy, or that guy, to do the task. Do I plan for the dodge reroll, or the team reroll? Maybe then. But since the task in question probably involves more than "just moving", I probably need the player to grab and then throw the ball. Best to do this with the guy who has the skill reroll, because thats more likely to preserve the team reroll. What a TRR really grants is the ability to pick between Player X, who has dodge but not pass/SH, and Player Y (Pass/SH but not dodge). Do I use the TRR so the Thrower can dodge, or dodge with the guy who is likely to be successful and save the TRR for ballhandling? With a TRR, I can play the odds a little more.

[s031720]

I think thats simplified a bit.

I think you often have situations where you have a choice,

Subpoptimal
Good enough
Optimal

Often the optimal solution requires more risk. When low on TRR id choose the good enough alternative.

Instead of making two dodges without RR to build a cage further ahead, but where a TO would mean losing the ball with high probability, Ill take the safe route and build it not so far ahead. Etc. So it does very much affect my play, to me its not as simple as to say, "there is one way to do it, and I will do it no matter what. Only with RR I have a bigger chance of succeeding."

[AK_Dave]

I'm generally thinking in terms of 1TS/2TS, fast game, and not caging. I'm thinking in terms of how I can sack the ballcarrier, strip the ball, and razzle-dazzle it for a TD this turn - when the ball is halfway across my side of the pitch already.

But okay, sometimes not having TRRs means instead of pushing for the faster riskier score I delay for the slower score. But my history with THAT particular choice is that by delaying the score, my team gets thrashed into a bloody pulp AND the ball gets stolen AND its another 2-3 turns before anyone scores (either side).

So frankly, I'm usually better off with the ballsy play, looking for the fast score, throwing caution to the wind, and if Nuffle curses me then I scramble later.

[s031720]

Hehe, that seem to happen to me alot. But with DE you can handle an extra turn or two and taking it slow but safe still seem to beat the all-in risk taking for me.

On the otherhand its succeeding with the highrisk plays that really creates the great BB-moments. Thats where gut feeling comes in. (fingerspitzgefuhl!).

[AK_Dave]

We have a guy in our gaming group who is often quoted as saying "God hates a coward". Well, "Nuffle rewards risk". If you want Nuffle on your side, you have to be willing to risk it all.

I waffle between DE and Skaven. Neither team, for me, reward "slow but safe". Skaven less than DE. At least DE have the armor to take a couple hits.

Nuffle hates it when I delay a scoring attempt. If it is statistically possible for me to score, and don't TRY to, Nuffle curses me. If I hold back from sacking the ballcarrier, my team will be pummelled for my impudence. If I try, but err in the execution, Nuffle doesn't err in MY execution.

If in order to score I have to run down the ball, toss it upfield, run it for a handoff, dodge through your team, and GFI to score then thats what I'd better do. Not cage up at the LOS and hope to pass for a score next turn. Nuffle will strike my team down on the spot if I try something safe and ordinary like that. Nuffle will bless my Blitzer that when he's all alone behind the opposing team's lines with the ball in hand having just sacked the QB that his death will be remembered. But if I didn't at least try to sack the QB, my Blitzer is guaranteed to kill himself on a failed dodge roll.

[mattgslater]

I find I can be a lot gutsier when I have a TRR. If I have a plan that involves Leap, I'll get it out of the way before I throw auxiliary blocks so I know I have a TRR available for this key roll. But if I don't have a TRR, I'll make my blocks first, as they're less likely to end my turn.

Likewise, if I don't have a TRR when I need a tough roll, I'll look harder for an alternative. A 2d block, then a 3+/2+ dodge sequence and a 2+ pickup for a TD is scary without a TRR, but with a TRR it's not so horrid.

[Jural]

Gut feeling would be the correct translation I guess.

Just didnt think the BB-crowd was that illiterate..

It sounds like this phrase is really German specific to get all the flavor. Wikipedia associates it mainly with military battlefield "sense", and the closest English translation is "finger on the pulse".

But from what I've read, the phrase really has a military (or at least tactical) context, and differs from intuition or gut instinct in that it implies the possesser of the trait actually has an awareness or a sense (more likely an ability to conceptualize and visualize) situations from a much more limited set of data than a normal mind.

Not quite like Paul Atreides in Dune at the end, but close

[s031720]

Ah, the beuty of the mentat mind!

Then again, maybe the word have lost some if its nuances through cultural influence. We use this in Sweden, and there it differs very much from the mentat über-rational computermind.

Here fingerspitzgefuhl means a combination of intuition and previous experience, wich helps you calibrate an action/situation etc to perfection.