Human Team help request

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:29 pm

If woodies & lizards are the main threats then your choices are simplified a bit.

Block, Tackle & Frenzy is a great combo for taking on S2 blodgers (or skinks) so probably worth taking.

Dodge blitzer I'd give tackle too - a 2nd tackle will be vital in those games - especially if the other has frenzy

Guard blitzers I'd think Stand Firm would be a good compliment to Mighty blow and also should help frustrate agile teams a bit more.

S3 catcher I think either develops as a 5th blitzer - with strip ball as the obvious next skill. His superior speed and mobility make him good at that. Alternatively he can develop defensively (DT & SS) meaning your other catchers can think more about offence.

bjorn9486 · Post by **bjorn9486** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:30 pm

I'll try to inject my 2 cents here and help out a fellow human team player

Lictor wrote:And my Ogre got reduced to Av8 in his second game, so is he a TR risk or still useful?

I would say yes as my Ogre is always the target for other big guys, who have mighty blow. At AV 8, he will probably spend a lot of time on the pitch stunned, so if you have the money for another one I would get it.

Lictor wrote:The Tackler I am thinking Strip Ball as he is my sweeper.

I agree, with Strip Ball there is your ball-carrier-killer. Add Mighty Blow or Dodge on doubles and he can stay right next to the ball to defend it should the need arise.

Lictor wrote:The Dodger I am thinking either Sure Hands or Fend so I have 3 Strong scorer types, but at the same time the only teams I concerned about are W'Elf and Liz and might need more Tackle ASAP.

I might take Sure Hands, but I like my blitzers to be hitting people, not running the ball. More Tackle and Mighty Blow would be my choices, putting the Woodies and Lizzies down and keeping them there.

Lictor wrote:What direction do I take a St 3 Human Blodging Catcher?

Have fun with that catcher, as he is going to make your opponent's life miserable. I would not make him into another blitzer due to the AV7, but you now have the potential to run him down field by himself and have a decent chance of surviving. Diving Catch is a favorite of mine on catchers and Side Step would be another good choice.

From personal experience, these things I would avoid

Shadowing on a Blitzer - It sounded nice at the time I picked it, especially because he already had dodge, and I was just going to mark the ball carrier with him. However, in the 7 or 8 games he played in with that skill, he only had the opportunity to use it once (I forgot he had it by then). Every other time he would get blocked away from the carrier or they would just go the other way.

Leap on a Blitzer - Once again, sounded nice when I took it and it was supposed to also strike fear into my opponents

but an AG 3 blitzer with leap is basically useless. I never actually used it and all but one opponent never remembered he had it, let alone was scared of it.

Frenzy on a Blitzer - Not as bad as the other two, but he needs some support to make sure he doesn't get into trouble. I would usually pair him with another blitzer so he did not get 2D blocks against him, but he still managed to get into some situations I wished he wouldn't. Remember, its not just that you have to hit a 2nd time, but you must follow up both times, and if you are trying to crowd surf someone, you must be careful you don't get crowd surfed yourself.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:36 pm

Wood Elves and Lizards? Strip Ball is good, as SH is a real commodity on those teams. Woodies need a backfield rotation to keep their development curve going, while Lizards... well....

Also good is Mighty Blow. With Block/Tackle/MB, your chance of a Cas when blocking a Skink is about 2/9. If you can stay on the Skinks with your hunters, then 2/9 should yield 2.2 casualties or so per match. Nothing wrong with that.

Similarly, get lots of Block. For the ST3 Catcher, I think Side Step is the logical choice. But then again, my name is Matt and I'm a Side Step addict.

Lictor · Post by **Lictor** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:24 am

Thank ya'll for your support so far. From what I have absorbed and agree with

1. Ogre - <-- Guard. Will keep him around until other BG's appear.
2. Blitzer - Tackle <-- Strip Ball then MB
3. Blitzer - Dodge <-- Tackle, League necessity
4. Blitzer - Guard, Mighty Blow <-- Stand Firm
5. Blitzer - Guard <-- as above
6. Throw - Kick <-- Leader
7. Throw - Accurate (yet to make a completion

and really want a double)
8. Catch - Block, Side Step <-- Diving Tackle (always going to happen)
9. Catch - Block, St +1 <-- Still not sure what I am doing...
10. Line-O
11. Line-O - Wrestle
12. Line-O
13. Line-O (All Line aiming for Wrestle Tackle Fend in some kinda order)

I could turn the St 3 Catcher into the runner the other Thrower won't be, I could turn him into a better Sweeper then the Blitzer or a better scorer then my other Catcher...

As a Runner - Sure Hands
Sweeper - Strip Ball/Tackle (not sure how big Sure Hands is in the league yet)
Catcher - I'm almost inclined for Sure Feet or Sprint as he'll double as a better marker against Lizards and W'Elves and makes him a more annoying scorer if ha can move that much faster.

Disagreements with anything? Improvements? Critique? Slander?

Again thank you guys for making things a lot easier so far.

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:15 am

Shadowing on a Blitzer can work, but it's best after Tackle and Stand Firm/Side Step. And with that combination, Guard is probably the better choice, but Shadowing can be a lot of fun.

Re: the ST3 Catcher: if your options are runner or sweeper, go with sweeper because he has access to Side Step. ST3 Blodge Side Step is an excellent combination for holding people up while the rest of your team bears down. Add in Tackle and Shadowing (Guard on Doubles) and you've got an excellent back-field safety.

bjorn9486 · Post by **bjorn9486** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:11 am

Lictor wrote: 8. Catch - Block, Side Step <-- Diving Tackle (always going to happen)

Only problem I see there is your catcher needs to be in the tackle zone of another player. This means that instead of running by, they may just hit him. With ST2 and AV7, I personally consider this dangerous.

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:29 am

Nah. Hitting a Blodge Side Step player is not going to help very often, and might just make things worse. Plus, it's a pretty cheap and easy to build Blodge Side Step player (16 SPP on an 8MA player is pretty easy to get), so if the worst comes to the worst, he dies and you build another one.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:31 am

And they're 0-4.

Lictor · Post by **Lictor** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:10 am

bjorn9486 wrote:
Lictor wrote: 8. Catch - Block, Side Step <-- Diving Tackle (always going to happen)
Only problem I see there is your catcher needs to be in the tackle zone of another player. This means that instead of running by, they may just hit him. With ST2 and AV7, I personally consider this dangerous.

There are many reasons why you should do this.

1. They might waste a blitz just to free they ball carrier instead of open a hole.
2. They might have to risk the ball carrier throwing a hit or best case scenario, forget about Diving Tackle and try and make a Dodge

3. More often then not I will have someone else on the ball carrier, chances are they will be Strength 3 and so begins angry and frustrated coaches as they turn over the ball.

St 2 is their only disadvantage in this case but at 70 Gp, they are reasonably replaceable in worst case scenarios.

stormmaster1 · Post by **stormmaster1** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:42 am

People seem to forget that 0-4 70k cathchers on a human team are expendable (unless you roll +stats).

Personally i try and use them as a poor man's gutter runner. Early blodgers for annoyance and survival. Sidestep then diving tackle gets really annoying for opponents. I also think any speed bonuses and sure feet are great if you feel your offence needs a boost. Strip ball on a rookie can make a great kamikaze ball carrier hunter.

I always field at least 1-2 catchers on defence, as their speed is so useful. 3 main reasons: speed and dodge to get an extra player/assist to where you need it, speed to get to a dropped ball, and having a scorer on th pitch makes it more likely you will score on defence (e.g. elf tactic of having a reciever in your backfield means dropped balls need only a pickup and pass to get to the endzone).

pseudo_draconic · Post by **pseudo_draconic** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:04 pm

Storm above has a very similar view on human catchers as me.

I think it is a coaching style thing, I play super agressivley on both sides of the ball, always looking for quick TD. This means I'm sending them in deep on defense vs caging teams to try and stop them ever getting the ball secured and I'm using them as lite-blitzers vs lightweight teams.

They allready have catch and dodge for scoring and thats all they need on that front so I lean towards dauntless, strip ball, tackle and wrestle combinations. I skip block in preference of wrestle since they are disposable and getting a ball carrier in the backfield down is more important than staying up the next turn.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:24 pm

This is making me want to play Humans. I haven't played Humans in a league (well, ok, one preseason game) since going to the new rules from our 3rd-eddy homebrew. I can totally see the value of Wrestle over Block for a ST2 man-marker, even though I think it's better the other way on ST3. ST2 doesn't generally command a separate action, unless the one square of movement is absolutely critical; most of the time you'll blitz him away with the marked player, if you were ever tempted to blitz him. But Wrestle makes that a little trickier. Unfortunately, with ST3, the need for an assist means it's tempting to blitz with someone else, and Wrestle is less useful there (still better than nothing).

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:47 pm

I'm pretty much with Brokje (bottom of page 1).

I think catchers are good. I'd start with at least one, simply so other players could dummy-pass to him.

I think the advantage of humans is that they are a decent finesse/mobility team, but with a bash edge.
I'd take mighty blow as 1st skill on 3 blitzers. 1st one to reach 2nd skill gets tackle, while the other 2 get piling on.

For catchers, one with diving catch is nice.
And if you get an MA+, I'd shoot for a 1-turner with sidestep and sure feet.
But other than that, block dauntless is my top choice. 6-7 fast blitzers can be a nightmare.

Cheers
Martin