Waiting to score is Fair?/Unfair?

Haar · Post by **Haar** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:40 pm

It is a totally valid strategy. It can backfire, just as pushing your luck for a two turn score can backfire. If you're on the receiving end of this strategy, do as much as you can to pressure your opponent into scoring. Even if you cannot stop the ballhandler from scoring, put guys downfield so he's not tempted to sit on the endzone. make it seem like now is the best time to score. You can even do this to dwarfs.

Remco · Post by **Remco** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 7:29 pm

I play against a dwarven coach with my HE team. He uses it as much as he can, but I learned to return the favour!

The last two games I played against him I received the first time. I delayed the score from two turns to three turns, so he would have one less turn to equalize. Both games it proved fruitful. Because his cage advances very slowly, he was rushed the last turns of the 1st half. With some luck, I managed to beat him 2-0 and 3-0.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:54 pm

Balrog wrote: The way we view it is that the player who has the ball will want to score, despite his coach's plan. I have never seen a fooball player not score when he has a clear path to the endzone.

i'm no Amrican Football expert, but I'm sure I seen WR run along the line of he EZ from one corner to the other, just to take a few seconds off the clock.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:56 pm

martynq wrote:However, if you are 4-0 up, have caused enough casualties that at the next setup your opponent will only get to setup six players to your eleven, and there are only three turns to go, then you should score, just to be nice and give him a chance to have the ball.

Surely if the teams taken that much damage the coach wouldn't want to have to receive?

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:04 am

It is a fair tactic, and it can sometimes backfire.

Our Orc coach did it. Game tied at 1-1, his 7th turn with the opponent left with only his 8th. He set up two players to guard the ball carrier on the line whilst the rest of the team pummeled the poor Skaven in the centre of the field. Typically, his BO rolled 2 skulls against the GR. No problem, use a re-roll. Guess what? That's right, 2 Skulls. The skaven coach quickly negated the assists on the ball carrier, blitzed with his AG5 GR!!, got double POW on the 2 die opponent chooses, picked up the loose ball in 2 TZ, threw a successful Long Bomb (natural 6) which was caught by a 2nd (MV11, sprint)GR who ran in for the winning TD.

He was gutted.

I admit to using this tactic with my Norse, but usually don't cause anymore cas (IE don't use Mighty Blow, Dirty Player etc), don't foul, just try to keep the opposistion prone or stunned. Yeah, it frustrating to play against, and it ain't pretty, but neithers your face when an orges fists met it.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:33 am

Well, i disagree with Mestari, christer, Dangerous Dave, voyagers_uk, MickeX, Zy-Nox, martynq, Balrog, Pariah and Darkson.

I think it's a perfectly fair tactic, no matter the circumstance and no matter the motive. And i certainly wouldn't get mad if someone did it to me, even if only to hurt my players and get SPPs from CAS. It's all part of the game, and you need to learn to deal with it.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:38 am

Actually Zombie, I agree. It is a prefectly fair tactic. I was just saying I don't normally go for the cas, just to run the clock down.

In the game were I did it against someone I could have gone for the cas as he only had 5 players on the field at this time, butwe played in a "fixed no. of games" league, and I didn't want to ruin his enjoyment for the rest of the season (we only had 2 games to go.)

However, if someone was acting a complete pr*ck then I might be tempted for the pummel, just not normally.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:46 am

I always play in leagues with fixed length seasons myself, but that wouldn't stop me from doing such a thing if the benefit was there for my team.

Actually, i hate playing against people who don't think that way, and would be afraid to hurt my team. If you're not going to use every means at your disposal, then what's the point of competing at all? After all, Blood Bowl is a competition first and formost, like all games and sports.

But everyone doesn't have the same level of competitiveness within them.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:53 am

Yeah, well, he was a 13 year old kid. Be a shame to drive him out the hobby by making him suffer for all his mistakes. I know, you might say it's the only way to learn, but he was getting really pi**ed off getting beat all the time and getting fed up with gaming in general.

Sorry, if that's not competitive enough for you. Maybe you'll like our DE WFB player who after beating him in a battle said "He made some stupid mistakes so I slaughtered him. It was easy.". Great attitude.

Still, he wasn't so cocky when the youngster beat him in the wooden spoon.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 2:06 am

That's not competitive, that's childish.

Competitive is when you beat him real bad, no holds bared, but after the game (and even during the game between turns and kickoffs), you give him tips to help him improve. A really competitive person wants good competition and hates winning all the time. Personally, i'd prefer to lose every game than to win them all.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 2:10 am

We did, and do, point out mistakes to him in all game systems. Unfortunately he's got into that mindset were he's not going to win so he won't win. Eventually,someones going to have to throw a game just to get hs confidence up again. This is partly one of the reasons we're playing Quest, because at least if he in a party there's usually somone to help bail him out.

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 6:59 am

Balrog wrote:As most people know my league uses the Glory rule, which in our opinion is the best of both worlds. You can control the clock provided that the player with the ball is at least one gfi from the end zone. This does 2 things:
1- it gives the ball carrying team the option to run the clock down, and

=>Tell me how with a gunter runner or high speed players...(being in the midflied..)

Balrog wrote: 2- it at leasts gives the defensive team a chance at the ball carrier.

=> So what, cant he defend without that?

Balrog wrote: In my experience teams that run the clock usually do it against a defense that is so pummeled that it couldn't get the ball even if the player was one gfi from the end zone. Also, this rule is a very sprotsmanlike affair. People who just want to win will never agree to it, it's good for leagues but bad for tournaments.

=>People in my league have fun but want to win also

Balrog wrote: The way we view it is that the player who has the ball will want to score, despite his coach's plan. I have never seen a fooball player not score when he has a clear path to the endzone.

=>But i have seen a lot of teams playing the clock.
An advice from Guy Roux (trainer of Auxerre ) :
Playing clock in last minutes means to kick upside the opponent goal and not trying to score because the opponent will loose more time like this...
It is used in every game, so why not in Bloodbowl?

Balrog wrote: That said, running the clock is a valid tactic, and under this rule it just makes it a little more difficult. And trust me, it makes things a lot more fair for your opponent, try it and you will see.
-Balrog

=>I dont think this is fairer . I think that this is getting defense and low speed teams an advantage.

As i said, i will not pay for my opponent mistakes.
You have to get the right tactic against opponent attack without rule to help you.

Imagine, i play this rule:
I will go with all my players down to your field without fear about my deep defence because you will HAVE TO score...

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 10:03 am

Darkson wrote:Surely if the teams taken that much damage the coach wouldn't want to have to receive?

You'd rather receive than kick that's for certain. At least you'd get the ball and a chance to get a completion.

Zombie wrote:Well, i disagree with Mestari, christer, Dangerous Dave, voyagers_uk, MickeX, Zy-Nox, martynq, Balrog, Pariah and Darkson.

I think it's a perfectly fair tactic, no matter the circumstance and no matter the motive. And i certainly wouldn't get mad if someone did it to me, even if only to hurt my players and get SPPs from CAS. It's all part of the game, and you need to learn to deal with it.

Do you have any friends Zombie?

Cheers,
Martyn[/quote]

Ancalagon · Post by **Ancalagon** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 10:26 am

martynq wrote:
Zombie wrote:Well, i disagree with Mestari, christer, Dangerous Dave, voyagers_uk, MickeX, Zy-Nox, martynq, Balrog, Pariah and Darkson.

I think it's a perfectly fair tactic, no matter the circumstance and no matter the motive. And i certainly wouldn't get mad if someone did it to me, even if only to hurt my players and get SPPs from CAS. It's all part of the game, and you need to learn to deal with it.
Do you have any friends Zombie?

[/quote]

I agree with zombie on everything... I play as he said and I have friends.

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 11:12 am

>After all, Blood Bowl is a competition first and formost, like all games >and sports.

To me, Blood Bowl is first and formost a board game I enjoy playing with my friends. That's why I prefer not using tactics that bore people. As I said, it's not an unfair tactic - just a bit dull.

Micke