Skills for Dwarfs in a 1M Tournament

[PTT]

Your runner will not need Block in most of your games. He shouldn't be getting blocked.

Agreed.

But with MA6 and Block he has other uses beyond ball carrying.

+1

MTFBY. PTT

[mattgslater]

Option 4 - all Guard is the optimal choice.

Your runner will not need Block in most of your games. He shouldn't be getting blocked. But if you have 5 Guard and he does get blocked then the extra Guard will be of more protection anyway.

Strip Ball marginal, and Dwarfs don't have thr speed or AG to make use of it.

MB is marginal IMO in tournaments as a bought skill. Guard helps with getting CAS too.

Kickoff Return is helpful, but it isn't a skill of comparable value to Guard.

The best thing about Guard is that the more you have, the better each one is. It's all about synergy. All those Guards overlap and complement each other. 2 Guards can be avoided. 5 can't.

I like your thinking

I agree with Joe here. Stand Firm is a great skill on ST4, or a great second skill on ST3 with Guard (not usually possible in tournaments). But Dwarfs lack for ST, and need as much Guard as they can get. One Runner with KOR might be a good idea, in lieu of a #2 Blocker with Guard (just one on the line is ok if you squint). Or you could take 3 Blockers with Guard and one KOR Runner. Block is a great first skill on Runners in a league, but in a tournament, that's what Blitzers and Slayers are for (except as a counter to the 1d-with-Strip Ball, but that's what Guard is for).

[Mad Banker]

I plan to use Dwarves in a 1M tournament next month.
It's a 3 games tournament and you only get a skill after match 1 and 2, so only 2 skills...
I tend to agree with the general opinion that guard is best for dwarves and the more you have the better but... with only 2 skills I think there might be better choices as 2 guards are a little underwhelming.
I was thinking KOR on a runner after match 1 and maybe guard on a blocker to hold the line after match 2.
Or maybe still all guard???

I'm thinking of taking full positionals, 5 blockers, 3 rerolls, and 3FF

[mattgslater]

Guard/Guard or KOR/Guard. Maybe Guard/KOR. That format doesn't give you any other good alternatives. I'd go Guard/KOR or Guard/Guard, the more I think about it, just on the twin theories that a) defense comes first, and b) it all starts on the line. If you know your #3 opponent before you play them, then you can tailor to them, with Guard if they're bash and KOR if they're speed.

Might I submit that in such a format you'd do better with Orcs? Dwarfs really rock after about 4 skills, but out of the box their low statlines are a real problem: it takes Guard and KOR to avoid giving your opponent a natural win to play off of. Moreover, the teams they like to beat on (except Amazons and the Stunty teams, I'm talking elves and rats) are also the types who tend to see more use in skillier tournaments, as they have the same problem from the opposite direction (good statlines, not enough basic skills). Orcs and Humans have the full package of skills and stats, and will do better in rookie-oriented formats.

[Mad Banker]

Guard/Guard or KOR/Guard. Maybe Guard/KOR. That format doesn't give you any other good alternatives. I'd go Guard/KOR or Guard/Guard, the more I think about it, just on the twin theories that a) defense comes first, and b) it all starts on the line. If you know your #3 opponent before you play them, then you can tailor to them, with Guard if they're bash and KOR if they're speed.

Might I submit that in such a format you'd do better with Orcs? Dwarfs really rock after about 4 skills, but out of the box their low statlines are a real problem: it takes Guard and KOR to avoid giving your opponent a natural win to play off of. Moreover, the teams they like to beat on (except Amazons and the Stunty teams, I'm talking elves and rats) are also the types who tend to see more use in skillier tournaments, as they have the same problem from the opposite direction (good statlines, not enough basic skills). Orcs and Humans have the full package of skills and stats, and will do better in rookie-oriented formats.

Thanks for the input. That's sound advice (as always when it comes from you)
I'm well aware that orcs are probably a better choice in this format but I don't have figs for the team (and to be honest, I don't like playing them that much).

[mattgslater]

Thanks for the input. That's sound advice (as always when it comes from you)

[TuernRedvenom]

Might I submit that in such a format you'd do better with Orcs? Dwarfs really rock after about 4 skills, but out of the box their low statlines are a real problem: it takes Guard and KOR to avoid giving your opponent a natural win to play off of. Moreover, the teams they like to beat on (except Amazons and the Stunty teams, I'm talking elves and rats) are also the types who tend to see more use in skillier tournaments, as they have the same problem from the opposite direction (good statlines, not enough basic skills). Orcs and Humans have the full package of skills and stats, and will do better in rookie-oriented formats.

Hmm can't say I share your experience. Dwarves do well in any tourney that doesn't hand out stat bonusses. Just about any team can use stat bonusses more effeciently then dwarves (due to crappy MA).
They are extremely reliable out of the box due to all their skills. Even better so then orcs IMO, as a rookie Black Orc isn't nearly as good as one with Block or Guard. Orcs are still a top team in the format (well, any format really) though.

Additionally in my experience with skaven (and I have played a lot of tourneys with skaven) they excell at low skill tourneys, mainly because turnovers happen more often (and are easier to trigger) due to less skills on the opposition, which is what skaven thrive on. It's also easier to keep your rats alive if your opponent doesn't have extra block, frenzy or guard yet.
The same goes for wood elves, although they have better skill selection available and as such can compete more easily when lots of skills are being given out.

[PubBowler]

Might I submit that in such a format you'd do better with Orcs? Dwarfs really rock after about 4 skills, but out of the box their low statlines are a real problem: it takes Guard and KOR to avoid giving your opponent a natural win to play off of. Moreover, the teams they like to beat on (except Amazons and the Stunty teams, I'm talking elves and rats) are also the types who tend to see more use in skillier tournaments, as they have the same problem from the opposite direction (good statlines, not enough basic skills). Orcs and Humans have the full package of skills and stats, and will do better in rookie-oriented formats.

Dwarves are great in low skill formats, it's double ans stat increase that mess them up.
KOR is a rare pick for Dwarf tournie sides and certainly not an essential.
Elves (well, Wood mainly) and Skaven are very good in low skill formats.
Humans are not a top tournie team.

Pretty much disagree with this entire paragraph (except Orcs, they're good at all levels but can't utilise doubles as effectively as some others).

[mattgslater]

Agree about Wood Elves, as they start with lots of Dodge (especially in 1.1M formats), but High/Dark/Pro Elves really need their skills. Rats are good at any level, I'll grant. Humans aren't a top tourney team at any level, but their relative ability is still as a rule inversely proportionate to their opponent's development, and if you're primarily a Human coach a low-skill format will work in your favor.

I still think Dwarfs with a couple skills are way better than rookie Dwarfs: without any development multiple ST increases and a good amount of Block beats lots of Block but all ST3 any day, but with a couple Guard guys and maybe a skill on a Runner or two they're way more powerful. Also having neither KOR nor a passing game makes it very hard to score.

[PubBowler]

Also having neither KOR nor a passing game makes it very hard to score.

Even for Dwarves this statement is hyperbole at best.
Dwarves can pull off a sound grind without these things.

In tournies, you have to score one more than the opposisition.
Dwarves do this just fine, as demonstrated by theme being the 4th most successful race in LRB5 NAF tournies.

[Glorian Underhill]

I will gone with Block on one Runner at least.

the opposition sooner or later gets the runner, and then Block is the King. Especially against Wardancer heroes.

Also I had numerous situations where I played with my dwarfs against full guard Dwarfs and my Block Runner smashed his non-Block-ball-carrier-Runner.

Mighty blow on the slayer is nice and helped me to kick some Orcs into the KO Box over the time. But two MBs and one Block runner gets to a max of one guard.

So my choice might be:

1. Runner - Block
2. Blitzer - Guard (defends Runner)
3. Slayer - Mighty Blow
4. Blitzer - Guard
5. Blocker - Guard

[Craigtw]

I'd take KoR first, then MB, then the guard on the blitzers, then the block on the other runner or guard on a longbeard.

1

How long does a thread have to be dormant before it is considered thread necromancy?

I am going to a tournament next month 1,080,000 TV - you have to build the 1000K team and then can have 80K in upgrades.

I am going to do the standard team of:

2 blitzers
2 slayers
2 runners
5 longbeards

Ian, I will heed your wisdom and so for my four skills I will take the KOR on the runner, MB on both slayers and guard on a blitzer. The tourney is at the end of January, so I will let you all know how it goes.

Have to say though... not having block on the other runner makes me feel uncomfortable.... Why would you think that MB is so important on the slayers? I thought Guard was the standard skill of choice amongst dwarf coaches.

[Joemanji]

How long does a thread have to be dormant before it is considered thread necromancy?

There was one from 7 years ago recently ...

[PubBowler]

I thought Guard was the standard skill of choice amongst dwarf coaches.

It is.

I would take a Block Runner ad 2 Guard Blitzers.

Then Either a Guard Blocker, a MB Slayer or Block/Wrestle the 2nd Runner.

[Carnis]

Where does all this talk about KOR being necessary come from? I mean REALLY?

Kick can be a nice skill for setting up defensive TDs and KOR might somehow counter that, but you are bringing 2 runners into the field either of which can cover all but 1 square off the pitch on the first turn on its own. KOR gives you 3 movement, for one turn in the game, possibly 2 if your opponent scores early and you get to try an equalizer. Haven't seen effective use of KOR in a BB game as of yet in 2 years of playing with the LRB5-6 rules.

Lowskill tournies I'd only look at guard, possibly block on one runner. I'd probably skip the block-runner though, being conservative and all.

In a multiskill tourney (like 6 skills or so), I'd go MB on one slayer for that +100% CAS/blitz, with 5 guards on the other 5 skillups.