Help me make an Orc team for a 1150k resurrection tournament

[someone2040]

I think Shrikebowl is ok for Alcohol, since it's also held at a club.
But... at the same time, I believe all lists are supposed to be handed in ahead of tournament and pre-checked.

[Olaf the Stout]

I'm pretty sure he was joking about getting a dodgy line-up past the tournament organizer. I'm sure it would become pretty obvious if someone tried to use one anyway.

Olaf the Stout

[Olaf the Stout]

To build offense
Thrower with +AG
2x Blitzer with Stand Firm
Troll with Guard
Blitzer with Frenzy
BOB with Block or Guard, or another Blitzer with Frenzy

If you like the "Half-Inverted" defense,
Blitzer with Side Step (corner 1)
Blitzer with Dodge (corner 2)
Blitzer with Guard or Tackle (WZ guard 2)
Blitzer with Frenzy or Grab (WZ guard 1)
Troll with Guard (nose)
BOB with Block or Stand Firm (blitz-absorber inside of WZ 2)

The first line-up has me interested. I'd probably swap that last skill out for Diving Tackle on a Goblin (I just really liked how well it worked last time).

Compared to the line-up I originally posted I gain +AG on the Thrower, lose the Dodge skill of the Blitzer and the Block skill on the Troll is changed to Guard.

That makes picking up the ball a lot easier, whether I'm fielding the kick-off or trying to pick up the ball in traffic. It also makes the passing game a lot more viable since he's basically a slow elven thrower.

The only thing I'm not sure about is that last tournament I only ever tried to pass the ball twice (for 1 completed pass and 1 fumble). I don't know if that's because I didn't need to pass or if it was because I was too afraid of the pass failing due to AG3. It would mean that my opponents would have to pay more respect to the possibility of a pass though.

The loss of Dodge (or possibly +MA) on a Blitzer is a loss but not a huge one. Changing the Block skill on the Troll to Guard is one I'm not 100% sure on. On one hand Guard means the Troll can still be useful, even if I don't activate him and risk him being Really Stupid. On the other hand, Block makes him much, much more reliable when blocking. Ideally he would have both but I can't get both.

In regards to the second line-up, what do you mean by half-inverted defence?

Olaf the Stout

[mattgslater]

Man, I'm really missing good terminology for defensive positions. In a format like this, there is no Grab to be found, so Side Step always does what it's supposed to do. So the player noted * has Side Step (he has to or the defense doesn't work).

Code: Select all

- - - -|- - x x x - -|- - - -
- * - -|x - - - - x -|- x - -
- - x -|- x - - - - x|- - x -

The inside backer on the left side (hugging the wide zone) is relatively safe: there's not much benefit to knocking him down. The safety behind him is a rookie BOB, and at ST4 isn't going anywhere. The other side will get hit. If you have either Stand Firm or Dodge on the right corner, and Guard on his protector, then all action will come up through the right inside, and the right inside backer (a BOB) is who will get hit and wants Block (though DT on a Goblin is a good substitute). In a perfect world, the BOB on the line in front of him has Stand Firm, to prevent chain-pushes and follow-up assists, but given the small numbers of skills involved I think you can just rely on ST and Guard to do the same.

Hmmm...
Blitzer with Side Step
Troll with Block
BOB with Guard
Blitzer with Stand Firm
Blitzer with Guard
Blitzer with Frenzy

[TuernRedvenom]

In tourneys I don't think choosing skills specifically for defence is such a great idea. I think you should choose skills that help you troughout the game and then use that to construct a defence.
Having a great defensive setup only helps vs teams that are looking for a 2-turn touch down. If I see that I can't get through on turn 1 I'll take my time and wait for the gaps that will inevitably arise. Most bashy teams (which is two thirds of all tourney teams) won't even try to break through significantly on turn 1.
Another problem with taking skills for defensive setup is that once you're down to 10 (which happens often, since most tourney teams have only 1, or even no reserve players) there's always a hole somewhere.

As for Matt's skill choices I'd swap out side step for Dodge and Stand Firm for Block on a Thrower

[Olaf the Stout]

In tourneys I don't think choosing skills specifically for defence is such a great idea. I think you should choose skills that help you troughout the game and then use that to construct a defence.
Having a great defensive setup only helps vs teams that are looking for a 2-turn touch down. If I see that I can't get through on turn 1 I'll take my time and wait for the gaps that will inevitably arise. Most bashy teams (which is two thirds of all tourney teams) won't even try to break through significantly on turn 1.
Another problem with taking skills for defensive setup is that once you're down to 10 (which happens often, since most tourney teams have only 1, or even no reserve players) there's always a hole somewhere.

As for Matt's skill choices I'd swap out side step for Dodge and Stand Firm for Block on a Thrower

I disagree. With the line-up I posted in the opening post, it was very hard for my opponents to break through the defensive line on T1. They either had to Blitz a SF Blitzer and hope for a Pow or Pow/Dodge (often with only 1d) or they had to make several dodges.

In the last tournament this allowed me to be quite agressive on defence, putting pressure on my opponent's backfield as he hadn't gotten any players downfield that I needed to mark up. The pressure I put on him then meant he was forced to play my game, not his. He couldn't sit back and play it safe as I was within strinking range and he couldn't rush the ball forward as most of his players were still near the halfway line.

In 6 games I was scored on twice. And on both occasions I was able to force my opponent to score quickly or risk getting the ball taken off of them. This allowed me time to get the ball back down the other end for a return score.

And while the Stand Firm helped on the opening turn, they also proved very useful during the game as my opponents constantly forgot about them. It seems to be a skill that is easily forgotten by opponents which leads to unexpected advantages on a fairly regular basis.

Having the Diving Tackle Goblin on defence also changed the way my opponents played. It made my opponents wary of bringing the ball up close in case the DT Goblin latched on to the ball carrier. It also made my opponents a lot more conscious of the DT Goblin. This allowed my Blitzers to come into play more as my opponent focused on the Gobbo. Any time I am changing the way my opponent is playing and make him play on my terms I am halfway to winning.

Also the team I listed in my opening post as my currently selected team has 13 players. So I can afford to lose 2 players and still have a full line-up. Orcs with their AV9 tend to be pretty hardy. Add to that the fact that it is a resurrection tournament and I think I will be ok numbers-wise.

Olaf the Stout

[Olaf the Stout]

Ok, after thinking about this some more I am leaning towards a revision. The previous line-up I was going to go with was:

4 x Blitzers (2 x Stand Firm, 1 x Frenzy, 1 x Dodge) - 320k
4 x Black Orc Blockers - 320k
1 x Thrower - 70k
2 x Goblin (1 x Diving Tackle) - 80k
1 x Troll with Block - 110k
Ugroth Bolgrot – 70k

3 x Rerolls - 180k

Total - 1150k

Now I am thinking of swapping out the 2 x Stand Firm for 2 x Guard. Who should I give it to though? The 2 Blitzers or 2 Black Orc Blockers? Mobility, allowing me to get the Guard guys where I need them, or Strength, making it harder for my opponent to be able to Block my Guarders out the way?

I'm also not sure about going with Block instead of Guard on the Troll. That would make him a lot less dangerous and reliable as a blocker. However, with both Really Stupid and Loner, not Blocking with him at all and just using him for assists (via Guard) may be a better option.

The final choice I am not sure about is Dodge on the Blitzer. I am wondering if +MA or some other double is a better option?

Thoughts?

Olaf the Stout

[mattgslater]

The purchases are hard to argue with. Here's what I'd do.

WZ, Left: Blitzer with Guard, Blitzer with Dodge
WZ, Right: Blitzer with Side Step, Blitzer with Frenzy, inverted side
Line: 2x BOB, Troll with Guard
Backers: 2x BOB
Safeties: Goblin with Diving Tackle, plus one of Thrower or Goblin or Ugroth

Free safety is on L side: Normally Goblin with DT, but Ugroth goes here if somehow you must field him.
Strong safety is on R side. He has a chance of getting hit, so the Thrower isn't a bad bet.

Alternative to DT Goblin: Block on Thrower. Put him in at strong safety with confidence. Or, against Dark Elves or Amazons, swap him with the BOB protecting him to make it rough to get through. It's still hard not to like DT Gob just for cool value. But a Block Thrower can also to to the Wide Zone if one of your Blitzers has been hurt. Not so much with the DT Goblin.

[Olaf the Stout]

The purchases are hard to argue with. Here's what I'd do.

WZ, Left: Blitzer with Guard, Blitzer with Dodge
WZ, Right: Blitzer with Side Step, Blitzer with Frenzy, inverted side
Line: 2x BOB, Troll with Guard
Backers: 2x BOB
Safeties: Goblin with Diving Tackle, plus one of Thrower or Goblin or Ugroth

Free safety is on L side: Normally Goblin with DT, but Ugroth goes here if somehow you must field him.
Strong safety is on R side. He has a chance of getting hit, so the Thrower isn't a bad bet.

Alternative to DT Goblin: Block on Thrower. Put him in at strong safety with confidence. Or, against Dark Elves or Amazons, swap him with the BOB protecting him to make it rough to get through. It's still hard not to like DT Gob just for cool value. But a Block Thrower can also to to the Wide Zone if one of your Blitzers has been hurt. Not so much with the DT Goblin.

Thanks Matt, I appreciate the feedback. A few of questions:

You don't think that your suggested line-up is lacking in Guard Matt? I just wonder if they'll get out muscled by teams like Undead, Chaos, Norse or other Orc teams who choose to go with a fair bit of Guard over other skills.

The other thing I am worried about with that line-up is that it doesn't have any one with Tackle. If I come up against any team with a bit of Dodge (or even just a single Blodging ball carrier) I'm worried about not being able to knock them down. Last time in this tournament (which was run with a different set of team construction rules) I only took 1 Tackler and, even though your opponent can often pin down and isolate the 1 Tackler, keeping him away from the ball carrier, I still found him to be useful more often than not.

Also, you don't think that I'm better off with Guard on a Black Orc, since they are harder to push away (as often teams will attack players with Guarders instead of other skills)?

What about swapping the Guard on the Troll for Block? Not worth it?

What about Dodge on the Blitzer? Would another Doubles skill or +MA be a better choice than Dodge?

Olaf the Stout

[mattgslater]

I don't think 2x Guard is insufficient on a team with a ST5 player, 4 ST4 players and a ton of Block. If you get out ST'ed once in a great while, you'll be able generally to outmaneuver the opponent, and you'll tend to have more Block. If you're worried about a lack of Tackle, that's reasonable. In that case, take it in lieu of Frenzy, perhaps, moving the D-Thrower into the Wide Zone and dropping the Tackle Blitzer in at strong safety.

The only reason I support Guard on a Blitzer over a BOB is that a Guard guy and a Dodge guy can support each other in the wide zone and BOBs put wide tend to get taken out of the play. But since the opponent will tend to go that way anyway, you can probably use a BOB there, putting a Blitzer in at the inverted-side backer, a less tactically crucial position. If you do that, take Guard off of him and give him Tackle instead. This could help save a Blitzer as a Tackle target if you'd rather drop Diving Tackle than Frenzy.

If you drop Dodge on the other Blitzer to take Block on the Troll, you need another skilled BOB, and you'd still probably want to give that Blitzer a skill, like Tackle or Stand Firm.

[Olaf the Stout]

Hmmm, it's a tough choice. I'd like a Tackler in there, but Frenzy also gives extra options, and also helps to narrow the field somewhat (opposition coaches tend to avoid the wide zones a little more unless they have Side Step).

Olaf the Stout