Pro Elf Qs

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:25 pm

You can counter Tackle by just taking Dodge on everyone. This works to some extent even against Dwarfs/CDs, since only 5 or 6 players have Tackle.

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:47 pm

Joemanji wrote:You can counter Tackle by just taking Dodge on everyone. This works to some extent even against Dwarfs/CDs, since only 5 or 6 players have Tackle.

I find that you don't need 11 Tackle players to cancel the benefits of having 11 Dodge players.

Obviously it takes very few players with Tackle to make every Blitz a Tackle player Blitz but even with 4+ (not unusual for developed teams) I find the positioning gets hard to avoid Dodge getting negated.

Not to mention that if you're playing the "more Dodge" game you're at high risk of being players down, compounding the problems of having your Dodge players being in Tackle TZs at the start of their turn.

It's also a stack of TV and a lot of missed skills to run that tactic.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:15 pm

I'm not saying you won't have some difficulties. Just that I don't think Tackle is a reason to not invest in a great skill (Dodge). Dodge is so, so good at low and mid TVs. It gets worse at high TVs, but I only see 2-3 Tackle on the most developed teams, and if you have 11 Dodge I think you'll be fine. Plus you should have skills of your own by then too... Block, Wrestle, Side Step etc.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:22 pm

I agree with Joe, there are some teams where you can skip dodge entirely, like nurgle for instance, but this is due to them not having normal access to dodge and can't therefore take a lot of it

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:16 pm

Grumbledook wrote:I agree with Joe, there are some teams where you can skip dodge entirely, like nurgle for instance, but this is due to them not having normal access to dodge and can't therefore take a lot of it

I would not recommend skipping dodge altogether, even with a nurgle team

. Block, Dodge, Two-heads pestigor is too tempting!

Not to mention that if you're playing the "more Dodge" game you're at high risk of being players down, compounding the problems of having your Dodge players being in Tackle TZs at the start of their turn.

Dodge is normally used to negate the POW/Push result in a block, more rarely to dodge out of a TZ. As I see it, dodge saves players, not the other way around. Usually, if you get to dodge out of a TZ (without tackle), you get to go into the TZ of another player, to get those 2dieblocks.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:53 pm

pestigors are going to be targeted already and players they use to do that will probably have tackle, of course this would force them to use the tackle player to get more knock downs than a PO MB player perhaps (though there will be more tackle players around as it is easier to get)

of course this is about pro elves and not nurgle, but demonstrates the ups and downs of dodge

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:09 am

Grumbledook wrote:I agree with Joe, there are some teams where you can skip dodge entirely, like nurgle for instance, but this is due to them not having normal access to dodge and can't therefore take a lot of it

The last phrase is where I think we differ.

Pro-Elves & High Elves are the two elf teams where it is possible to avoid taking Dodge (i.e. their positionals don't rely on it).

I've had fun and some success avoiding Dodge in this situation, which started as a follow on to thinking of not taking Dodge as a doubles choice on teams where Dodge is minimal.

Not saying it's better (I'm sure it's very league mix dependent) but I thought I'd offer it up as an option.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:33 pm

There are certainly alternatives. It's easy to come up with skill ideas for elves. But Dodge saves lives.

Master Wang · Post by **Master Wang** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:48 pm

The wrestle catcher skilled up again and took Dodge.

Also my kicker skilled again.

Dodge (continues the theme)?

Or Block (can't be negated so easily which protects a valuable player. Also useful on someone who is usually at safety)?

Patchwork · Post by **Patchwork** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:52 pm

When/if my Elf kicker gets a second skill I'd be tempted to go with wrestle

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:18 pm

Do you want your Kicker to soak up the blitz? Block or Wrestle (either). Do you want him to advance quickly to #3? Dodge.

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:31 pm

I agree with Joe and Grum, there are some teams that can skip Dodge entirely. Nurgle is a good example, but I think for any team that starts with no Dodge and no access to Agility skills on a normal roll, you have to at least consider never taking Dodge.

This applies therefore potentially only to a few teams: Chaos, Chaos Dwarf, Dwarf, Khemri, Nurgle, perhaps Orc (if there are no Gobbos on the roster).

Of these teams, I would say only Nurgle is a clear cut case for no Dodge. Perhaps the next best candidate is Dwarfs (with the idea of giving the Runners Sure Feet, Sprint on doubles). You can make the case for taking Dodge on most of the other teams listed above.

Master Wang · Post by **Master Wang** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:25 am

Played another game with these guys - loss against woodies (the MA10 Dancer and strip ball Dancer killed me)

But, got two more skill ups:

Lineman:

took dodge

Thrower:

Accurate (my offense really isn't working well, I score almost all TDs on defense)
OR
Leader
OR
Dodge
OR
Block/Wrestle (He's often deep so good as last ditch safety, combined with kick+dodge lineman providing an assist)

What do you guys think?

Also, I have 11 players at the moment and 70K in the bank. Tough it out to save for the next catcher, right? Or should I get a reserve now?

Master Wang · Post by **Master Wang** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:28 am

Also, given what Strip Ball did to me, where, if anywhere, is Sure Hands to go on this team? Blitzer? I'm not too worried about it as it was more Strip Ball combined with Leap that caused the problems I had.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:23 am

No need for Sure Hands. Take Accurate on a Thrower, and try to get the ball out of blitz range, using pure space (and maybe some zones) as defense against Strip Ball. Then, on the second turn, step up and throw. See if you can score on two turns every offense, and it'll keep you on defense.