Help with nurgle

Craigtw · Post by **Craigtw** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:43 pm

Carnis wrote: Does not help at all vs strip ball, hence sure hands is better. Also, it's 1/3 of an AG point with 1/2 of an AG point's worth of cost. I'm not that convinced. I could see a +MA or +MA/SureFeet player with X-arms, it's more TR-efficient than +AG if you're just planning to score with it rarely on quick offences.

But then Sure hands does not help for hand offs, catching or intercepting, so your argument is invalid. You cannot consider the beneifts of one skill without also considering the benefits of the other.

Sure Hands would only allow him to be a good ball handler, Extra Arms allows choice: ball handler or receiver.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:57 pm

I'm with Craig. Extra Arms is a grade-A skill-builder, halving your chance of a failed Comp attempt. Sure Hands is an SPP sink: it's a little better at what it does, but that's not the important part of Extra Arms. I'd take 2 or 3 Extra Arms players, and give a different guy Sure Hands as a second improvement, after Block.

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:06 pm

Your choice. I'm only advocating surehands, because against teams with strip ballers one must have it. Sure hands is no more an SPP sink than X-arms is, you're more likely to carry the ball with the SH / X-arm player, then hand off to another scorer if the situation allows for it. X-arm is no more necessary than sure hands against teams, which do not field strip ball players. Sure Hands also saves you some rerolls, which come at 70k.

The difference between an X-arms catcher and a non-X-arms catcher for comps is really quite marginal 74% without x-arms, 83% with (or 44% vs 55% if you don't have a reroll handy).

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:13 pm

You can usually scheme to beat one particular guy, even a Wardancer. You don't NEED Sure Hands to beat Strip Ball. But yeah, it does make it easier. And it's one less opponent you have to scheme to beat.

Tarp · Post by **Tarp** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:50 pm

if you dont need surehands to defend against a stripball elf, then you play against some sorryass coaches...

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:59 pm

With Nurgle-type teams, I mostly do have trouble against Strip Ball without Sure Hands (you can only spread the field if you're fast and have a thrower, and no, coaching skill has nothing to do with player MA or the length of the board). But I can force a Leap, tough dodge or series of dodges or contingent blocks, engineer a 2d-against Block, keep a Tackle TZ on the carrier, be ready to clear TZs off the cage to foul the WD on the following turn, and make it unlikely that the lie of the ball will facilitate a scoop. Even when Strip Ball works (3+ Leap, half-die block with TRR against rookie = 25/54 to push or kd, against Block = 8/27; with a TRR, it's a little better than 3/4 against a rookie or a little under than 1/2 against Block), it's seriously not the end of the world. Certainly not worth delaying your SPP progression by taking a skill that doesn't help you block, keep you in position or help other players improve.