Human development and strategy

[mattgslater]

Second Stashman: never spend an improvement to take Sure Hands on a Human, unless it's your AG4 Catcher or Blitzer on a 4th or 5th improvement. And even then, it's still probably not the best option: it just contains some relative value that you don't get by fielding an extra Thrower.

0-2 Throwers with SH for Lino+20k + no need for Leader = lots and lots of options. For one thing, a safety Thrower develops exactly the same as a running back. For me, one guy goes Acc/KOR/Block and the other goes Block/Fend/NOS. The QB (with Accurate) skills first if the first roll is normal, as Block guy is easier to improve and gets more mileage out of early doubles for Dodge or Side Step. For the QB, doubles could be Strong Arm or Sure Feet: I prefer Sure Feet, because it's potentially 2/3 of Strong Arm, in addition to lots of other apps, but it's totally a judgment call.

[Smurf]

Throwers 1 offence 1 Defence
2 Catchers offence 2 Catchers Defence
Blitzers all with MB and any double get dodge.
Line - Wrestle, these guys advance slowly... Get Tackle, that should slow down the dodgers!
Ogre - first opportunity of a Touch Back give the ball to the Ogre, Ogre then goes and scores a TD. Form a box around the Ogre, it is funny I know. The quicker the Ogre can get its first skill the better... either double = block or normal Multiblock!

If you move quicker than the team your playing, play elf style move it or lose it.
If you are playing a faster team than yourself, punch the crap out of them. Rogue catchers with MA 8 can do some funny things, like wait for a ball to come to them and go and score when playing defence.

Might give these a go again...

[Toad]

For some reason I had completely overlooked using a Thrower as an enhanced Lineman. That's a pretty good idea actually, saves on TV and SPP ... I'll do that.

Right now my Blitzers all have Guard and MB. I have one offensive Catcher with Wrestle and Fend, thought it would be a good combo to keep him out of TZ. The defensive Catcher has Sneaky Git and Dirty Player, I almost never field him in offense unless I need a second wide receiver. Only 1 Thrower, offense oriented, with Strong Arms and Accurate for now. I'll train a defensive Thrower from now on. My Linemen are slowly getting Block and Tackle for the lucky ones who survive until skill #2. One rolled AG and is used as close receiver for broader pass options in offense. My Ogre was absolute crap for half a dozen of games and then suddently decided to CAS twice in the same game, then scored on a touchback, and rolled double into Block. Seems that this guy finally understood why I bought him

I've read some guides about Humans and BB in general and start to understand how "offensive" positional players can also be specialized in defense, Catchers and Throwers for example. If I understand correctly :

Offensive Thrower : Accurate. Strong Arm or Sure Feet on doubles.
Defensive Thrower : Skilled as Linemen, Block, Tackle ... Kick on him? Dodge on doubles.
Offensive Catcher : Fend, Jump Up, Wrestle. No idea yet for doubles.
Defensive Catcher : Sneaky Git, Dirty Player, Block. Ignore doubles / Guard?

How does this sound?

[Smurf]

Offensive Thrower : Accurate. Strong Arm or Sure Feet on doubles.
Defensive Thrower : Skilled as Linemen, Block, Tackle ... Kick on him? Dodge on doubles.
Offensive Catcher : Fend, Jump Up, Wrestle. No idea yet for doubles.
Defensive Catcher : Sneaky Git, Dirty Player, Block. Ignore doubles / Guard?

How does this sound?

Offensive Thrower is good (consider safe throw)
Defensive Thrower I'd use kick and leader, Nerves of Steel and doubles get dodge
Lineman, some block some wrestle
Offensive Catcher: sidestep and fend
Defensive Catcher: Passblock and Shadowing

don't give position players skills that will get them sent off.

[Toad]

don't give position players skills that will get them sent off.

I thought it would be good to use a Catcher for fouling since that's my only player with direct G+A access for Dirty Player and Sneaky Git. With his MA8 I can usually foul whoever I want in the opposing team every turn. So far he has been pretty good at doing this including against high AV teams, and I doubt I'd have given Sneaky Git over Dodge to my Linemen rolling doubles.

For the offensive Catcher, why do you pick Sidestep over Block or Wrestle for example? To get him out of multiple TZ when he is being surrounded? To get him closer of the TD line?

[Smurf]

don't give position players skills that will get them sent off.

I thought it would be good to use a Catcher for fouling since that's my only player with direct G+A access for Dirty Player and Sneaky Git. With his MA8 I can usually foul whoever I want in the opposing team every turn. So far he has been pretty good at doing this including against high AV teams, and I doubt I'd have given Sneaky Git over Dodge to my Linemen rolling doubles.

For the offensive Catcher, why do you pick Sidestep over Block or Wrestle for example? To get him out of multiple TZ when he is being surrounded? To get him closer of the TD line?

You'll need to develop a play that the Catcher does not need Block or Wrestle. He is about movement and move really fast. So Sidestep means he can't get knocked off the pitch unless totally surrounded, he moves to a safe point (you decide) and yes ultimately closer to the the end zone.

The offense should be 2 turns max, So there is only 1 attack against the offence.

BTW first few games try the wing offence and get all the Catchers with 2TDs under their belts. 2 with Pass Block and the other 2 with Sprint. It's the ability to move 10 squares to a TD is really going to shock your opponent.

Another tactic is dummy the half cage, plan to go up but in reality on the first turn you go down the wing (take the ball via thrower to catcher), punch hole with ogre, run other catcher as far as possible (last action so to speak) including the GFIs if it can clear the grasps of the opponent. 2nd turn, half cage will be mobbed, run catcher back to thrower, thrower to move and make the short/long pass to waiting catcher.

The Human throwing game is wide open and with 4 blitzers this helps cages to stand up to punishment. Getting up the wing is going to be interesting and 1 die blitzs will have to do until a Blitzer gets dodge or you have plenty of rerolls.

Don't be afraid to pass the ball to the blitzers to score.

On balance now I've been thinking of cracking out a Human or Skaven team to do the same.

In the first few games, play a player to score 2TDs and retire to bench and cycle the team around with it. Once that is done let linemen pick up TDs from lost possesions, with the catcher's move a hand off would suffice to get ball to the lineman.

[mattgslater]

Congrats on the Block Ogre! Now you have the second-best single-skill midfielder in the game, after a Block Kroxigor. (Bloxigor?)

I like to run 3 Catchers on a 14-man team: one to foul with, as you do with DP and SG, one to play dedicated WR with Block and Diving Catch, and one to mark speedsters with Wrestle and either SS or DT. Wrestle is a better marker-skill for ST2 players than is Block: normally Block is superior as it prevents others from blitzing him into a both-down using the mark's assist, but a ST2 marker is liable to just getting hit by his mark. Diving Catch is huge for skilling linemen, and adds a lot of options to your passing game because a DC Catcher can catch in a zone. DP/SG guy can get a value skill at 31, like Block or SS, or he can go gimmicky.

I don't recommend Kick on a Thrower. Kick is for a lineman, because "defensive" Throwers must play both sides of the ball and have a clear development path. On a 14-man team, you can carry 2 or even 3 specialized defenders who have only a reserve offensive role, so maintaining a pair of safety Catchers (who do have a clear offensive role despite their development path) and a Kicker is very feasible. Make room for your Kicker by setting your Thrower out as a "free flanker" behind a SS winger, or establish an interior backfield alignment that lets you carry just one blitzing target (your Ogre, of course). Once this Thrower has Block and Fend, you can stick him on the wing too.

[Toad]

After two catastrophic games played yesterday evening, I have decided to disband the team and start working on a new one from scratch. First game saw two of my LOS Linemen receive -ST on the FIRST turn, followed by a -AG on my star Blitzer, which my Apothecary kindly offered me to turn into Death instead. I lost an other Linemen and my fouler Catcher to serious injuries in the early game two, after that my Ogre rolled a nice double skulls, Loner'ed the RR, CAS Death, which my lazy Apothecary once again turned into Death

Back to the drawing board with Humans, trying to capitalize on all I could learn there. I'll let you know how it goes, and this time I'll try to give more job interviews before hiring my Apothecary

First game will be against Orcs!

[Powerhausen]

Allight I'm not Blood Bowl Messiah or anything, but here's my take on humans.

People often dismiss the passing game, especially on humans, thinking it's too risky. Well, sure it's a lot more risky than other playstyles, but it's also a helluva lot more unpredictable. For this reason, I include three Catchers in the squad, two on the field and one in reserve in case of injuries (they do, after all, have a quite high turnover rate). The bad thing about Human Catchers have been mentioned before: ST2, AG3. However, they come as a pretty complete package from the get-go, and they are fairly cheap. Don't be afraid to throw them in there! Exploit a gap, and hang around the field within running distance of a TD. The worst that can happen is that your opponent will have to dedicate players to mark them, possibly opening up for a Blitzer to make a run for it or what have you not.

As for skills on Catchers ... It's easy to talk about having two offensive and two defensive catchers, but they tend to get injured (or worse) a lot, and they have little leeway on what kind of injury they can substain and still be worthwhile. Therefore, focus on making them recievers. Block is a natural first skill, followed by Side Step. On a double, I've had great success with Nerves of Steel. The obvious advantage is how he's a 3+ catch and a 3+ dodge (with rerolls) away from a TD at almost all times. However, if/when you find yourself in a situation where he's ended up with the ball, and then somehow got hopelessly marked before able to score, you can pass the ball out of a precarious situation fairly easily too.

With Blitzers, I wouldn't go all out Mighty Blow, as somebody suggested. Guard is a boring but good choice because it gives you the edge you need over Elf Blitzers, if you need to play the power game. I'd develop one into a killer, with Mighty Blow, Pile On, Frenzy.

Generally speaking, though, I think it's important not to "over-plan" things ahead. Have some general direction on where you want to take individual players, and the team as a whole, sure. But before you know it, you get a double or a stat increase, a key player might die, and your plans goes out the window. Which is sorta why I don't approve too readily with all kinds of "do this, do that" advice. Do developed team plays exactly the same, both because of whatever skills they might have ended up with, and because of the style of a coach. Don't be afraid to experiment, and remember: If you're an average coach, half the advice you get on an internet forum is from coaches worse than you.

[Smurf]

Actually Pile and Grab would be a good combo. Not too keen on Pile on as it leaves your player on the floor. But it should be considered, ie not used all the time, so I'd use it later on in the game. Dodge wouldn't go a miss either.

2 with MB and Grab, nice blitzing pair, tackle and strip ball are always nice too.
2 with MB and Standfirm, Thick Skull and Juggernaut.

Next year I am going to play humies, there are so many options!

[Joemanji]

Actually Pile and Grab would be a good combo.

I don't see the synergy. Certainly not compared to MB/PO or MB/Tackle

2 with MB and Grab, nice blitzing pair

How? Grab can't be used when you blitz (except to negate Side Step which is negliable at best).

2 with MB and Standfirm, Thick Skull and Juggernaut.

Why? Thick Skull is one of the worst value skills in the game, and Juggernaut is only of real value on Big Guys or if you have Frenzy. Skills like Guard are so much better.

[mattgslater]

[The value of Grab's ability] to negate Side Step … is negliable at best.

With you on everything else. Against teams that win with positioning skills like Pro Elves and any highly-developed elf team, this is a big deal. Even teams that only get SS on doubles sometimes really game-plan around having just one Side Stepper. The thing that makes Grab cool is that it has a whole lot of mediocre/situational benefits. It can engineer free blocks, crowdpushes, or 1TTDs. It combos with all sorts of skills on the Grab player or a buddy. If you can keep your Grabber in place for a turn he's a gnarly cage-breaker. Your opponent can't strong-mark you with a Dodger and be confident of a friendly push. But the best of these individual bennies is the part about beating Side Step.

[Smurf]

Grabber on the LOS, can turn a push back in to an advantage. Grab the player between the blocker and the LOS guy, move into the half with a follow up. Guy behind the LOS whacks the opponent. More Grabbers the more you can demolish the LOS.

[Grumbledook]

Disagree with you about Juggernaut only being useful on Big Guys or with Frenzy. Sure I still take Guard first but the ability to negate wrestle and fend is great on the right player.

Fantastic skill for a human blitzer imo, tackle Mighty Blow juggernaut and you can get those wrestle dodge players for example.

[Gimli]

I'm starting a Human team in a long term league, and have decided to start without an Ogre - have concluded the Loner, Bonehead combo is just too big a problem, especially when taking one means you have to give up a number of positonals and/or TRR. But that's just my view - what's the consensus on the Ogre, and should it be part of TV1000 lineup?