Kroxigor Doubles Skill Choice

[Craigtw]

With Pass Block, Break Tackle and Prehensile Tail, that's a 7x7 set of squares a receiver might hesitate to go into. (Ok, Wood Elves may just laugh at you, but other receivers . . . ) Even if the Krox is marked, he's got good odds of making at least one dodge. Get to the receiver and it's -1 to Catch. If he does? It's -1 to Dodge.

That is an intersting choice! Never thought of that one for him before. Would be even better on a Beast of Nurgle!

[AswanJaguar]

I don't necessarily want to be different for the sake of it, it just seems that Block doesn't always have to be the best choice. I'm aware of how strong it is, but that doesn't make it perfect imo

A Krox can still be competitive without Block, since they don't become useless is you never roll a double. If I am blocking with my Krox, unless I have to, it the last block of a turn, and it's normally not an important one. Sometimes it's safer to leave him, and not risk losing TZ's to Bonehead.

If I did want to play an attrition style game, and clear the pitch, Block would be the hands-down choice, but that's not how I play Lizards, or how I use my Krox personally. I guess making this topic may have been a but misguided...

[mattgslater]

How about this?

If it's the first skill (read: if he doesn't have Break Tackle), Block and Dodge are the only things I'd take over a S skill. Maybe Side Step, but not over Block or Dodge. Against Wood Elves, I'm not convinced that Side Step > Stand Firm, but as a general rule I think so.

If it's not the first skill, and he's got Break Tackle, then I'd take Pro or Tackle over an S skill. I'd probably take Tackle over Pro. I think that Craig's Pass Block idea is frickin' sweet, but he needs to smooth his progression out, and Tackle is more bang for buck. Diving Tackle is unnecessary deterrent on top of free* deterrent. Stand Firm would be better. I wouldn't take Tackle first, though: football is about now.

* You heard me: Free. Compared to an Ogre, a Krox gets free Prehensile Tail, because MA6:MA5 ≥ AG2:AG1.

[DoubleSkulls]

P Tail isn't that great IMO. Sure -1 to dodges is sometimes nice and can make people adjust player ordering, but the difference for AG4 dodgers is pretty marginal. 1/9 chance of failure vs 1/36 - that's only a difference 1/12. Augment that with tackle, and ignoring TRR, then you increase the chance of failure to a flat 1/3 with dodge or not - or 1/9 if they've got a TRR. Diving tackle on the other hand knocks it up to 1/4 even if they do have a reroll from any source.

So tackle is worse at marking than diving tackle on a P Tail player. So the advantage of tackle is for then blocking dodge players and the increased knock downs. Since you don't have Block you won't be doing this as much - and bonehead of course negates the pinning.

So for me either take DT, follow up with Stand Firm, or take Block - pray for a 2nd double and take Tackle.

[stashman]

Shadowing (if you get MA7 it will be better, but MA6 can make it happen)

Pass Block (maybe not very useful, but still a choice)

Sure Feet (safe MA8)

Frenzy (just push the krox into a cage)

[mattgslater]

I must respectfully disagree with Ian on the relative advantage of Tackle on a big guy. Versus a Human/Woodie Catcher or a GR, Tackle + BT gives you a good shot at blitzing with a guy who gets a 19/27 to knockdown, even in the face of Blodge. That's as good as it gets, barring Frenzy or Pro on top of it. Without BT, though, Tackle is worthless.

As far as dodge prevention goes, here's my thinking:
2+ skilled dodge vs. PT/DT = 5/9 chance, including a 2/9 chance to put the Krox prone. Usually an effective deterrent, but still in desperation range.
2+ skilled dodge vs. PT/Tackle = 2/3 chance, with another 2/9 chance on a TRR. Easier, but still far from optimal. Never puts Krox down on his (prehensile) tail.

So yeah, DT is a little better at stopping dodges. But it's not worth the difference given the difference in blocking.

But if it's a first skill, stay to the stuff that does its thing when somebody else hits him, because the health of your major investments is the most important skill of all. Since any such skill will have the same effect (almost nobody will hit him), you should take the one that's got the most other stuff going on. That's Block. The downside to Block, of course, is that it doesn't make him any tougher against other big guys. If that's an issue, take Dodge.

@ Stashman: Shadowing would be fun on a Skink. On MA6, it's only really effective against Amazons and Elf linemen, and those guys are also the ones who sweat Prehensile Tail. There's a Tackle/Stand Firm/Shadowing Stormvermin in my league, who's very annoying....

[DoubleSkulls]

Tackle doesn't help if you bonehead and doesn't help you survive the inevitable both downs. I'd assume one Saurus would get tackle & mighty blow, then does just as a good a job on blodgers and can use rerolls.

[AswanJaguar]

I will indeed have a Saurus who takes Tackle before Block. With my Krox I was hoping to capitalise on the Tackle + PTail synergy and leave him inactive when he couldn't risk a bonehead. I think for this role Diving Tackle gives better odds, as stated, it does mean getting Tackle on another player, where as Skinks are already likely to be loaded with Diving Tackle/Sidestep. Six of one I guess...

[mattgslater]

Yeah... I guess the fact that a Saurus needs an assist to get 3d on ST2 doesn't matter much because you can move the Skinks around.

OK. In that case, I'd double-down on my recommendation to consider only skills that matter when blocking or being blocked (Block, Dodge).

[AswanJaguar]

Yeah... I guess the fact that a Saurus needs an assist to get 3d on ST2 doesn't matter much because you can move the Skinks around.

OK. In that case, I'd double-down on my recommendation to consider only skills that matter when blocking or being blocked (Block, Dodge).

Over the course of this thread, I've come to agree. Easy enough to pop a cage with a Saurus, run in a Krox and an Skink leaving the carrier marked with PTail, Tackle, and a Sidestepping DTackle without picking crazy skills

Thanks for the discussion guys, very though provoking for me

Plus it made me all warm and gooey inside to see a debate between DoubleSkulls and mattgslater, players who've helped me learn so much about the game, in my very own thread

[mattgslater]

Plus it made me all warm and gooey inside to see a debate between DoubleSkulls and mattgslater, players who've helped me learn so much about the game, in my very own thread

It makes me all warm and gooey inside to be put in the same sentence with DoubleSkulls.