Khemri and LRB 6

[rvlvr]

Not sure how many games have already been played using "LRB 6", but have the Khemri been nerfed to bottom-tier? It's been quite quiet on Khemri front, it seems (until now, that is).

[Carnis]

Not sure how many games have already been played using "LRB 6", but have the Khemri been nerfed to bottom-tier? It's been quite quiet on Khemri front, it seems (until now, that is).

In stuntyleeg stats khemri are team #1 in win% with 61%, so no, they have not been.

[Pipey]

Was about to say how much I agreed with plasmoid's excellent post.

Then I saw several others had already done so! Nonetheless, I'm happy to add to the chorus of approval

I think the point he touched upon about the uni-dimensionality of Khemri is an important one. You do have to be prepared to be very disciplined and stick to a highly controlled, risk-managed game. There's no other way and some could find that boring. Also without the mass Mighty Blow, the team has lost a little bit of the fun-factor of LRB5.

The other point about being one dimensional is that it makes Khemri predictable and therefore fairly easy to play against, especially for the fast/agile teams. Accordingly they’re not the easiest team in the game to win with. When I’ve used LRB6 Khemri in league and tournament I’ve enjoyed the challenge, though it tends to be a game of chess rather than exhilarating end-to-end Blood Bowl!

[Ulfast]

I think you are right in you view Pippy. The khemri seems to be a team with less option then other teams and that you need to control your team and keep a close eye on them. That makes them less intersting for some people, specially those that want wacky crazy BB teams like chaos pact or slann teams.

But for me that is the challenge. I like to take a team that you ahve to really think to get the most of them. You know you will face hard times but when you make it right it feels so much better. In our league almost every team is played except khemri. We are around 20 people in all that plays. For our new league that will change as I´m now buildng a khemri team.

[rvlvr]

Not sure how many games have already been played using "LRB 6", but have the Khemri been nerfed to bottom-tier? It's been quite quiet on Khemri front, it seems (until now, that is).

In stuntyleeg stats khemri are team #1 in win% with 61%, so no, they have not been.

Gotcha.

[plasmoid]

IMO, doing well in one league does not make them a great team.
IMO they're low middle of tier one.

[Carnis]

IMO, doing well in one league does not make them a great team.
IMO they're low middle of tier one.

In other words. Not bottom tier.

[Ulfast]

We have talkted a little about the things that makes khemri a hard team to play but what do you think are the most diffucult things as a khemri player?

[Baduk]

the ball... picking it up

[wizmerlin]

All you coaches saying: "Khemri are not so bad. I win at least every other game I play with my Khemris". Do you really think Khemri are that ok or do you let your personal skill (and the fact that you have marvelously painted Khemri-team at your team carry-bag) affect too much on your valuation of the team? I mean, like you guys are (probably among) the best coaches in your league and most of you can play on high level even with Halflings and Ogres. I would like to hear/see some FACTS why Khemri aren't rubbish to play with if you are playing against a coach with equal skill and experience.

[solarflare]

Why they're not rubbish:
Ummm... well, they have 4 strength 5 players (with no negative skills) which can be used to control the pitch quite effectively. But, as has been pointed out, you have to play them in a disciplined manner in order to do this.
They have throwers that start off with sure hands (a 75% chance to pick up the ball without a reroll).
The blitzers are pretty standard, but they are good players...
They also have cheap linemen (even with the price increase) for fouling, having subs, etc.

It is quite possible for a khemri coach to beat (nearly) any other team that is equally well coached.

That's why I think they're not rubbish. (Are they as good as LRB5? No. But they were too good then, imo.)

[mattgslater]

IMO, doing well in one league does not make them a great team.
IMO they're low middle of tier one.

In other words. Not bottom tier.

That's just a little obvious, no?

Hmmm... Khemri or Ogres? I mean, Khemri have just as many ST5 guys to start, and if the argument against Khemri is that they have poor ball-control and weak linemen, well, uh, let me introduce you to Mr. Snotling. Only have two blitzers? Got suboptimal passer types? Poor lads.

[mrmojoz]

Hmmm... Khemri or Ogres? I mean, Khemri have just as many ST5 guys to start, and if the argument against Khemri is that they have poor ball-control and weak linemen, well, uh, let me introduce you to Mr. Snotling. Only have two blitzers? Got suboptimal passer types? Poor lads.

Well played sir.

[wizmerlin]

Why they're not rubbish:
Ummm... well, they have 4 strength 5 players (with no negative skills) which can be used to control the pitch quite effectively. But, as has been pointed out, you have to play them in a disciplined manner in order to do this.
They have throwers that start off with sure hands (a 75% chance to pick up the ball without a reroll).
The blitzers are pretty standard, but they are good players...
They also have cheap linemen (even with the price increase) for fouling, having subs, etc.

It is quite possible for a khemri coach to beat (nearly) any other team that is equally well coached.

That's why I think they're not rubbish. (Are they as good as LRB5? No. But they were too good then, imo.)

Ok, saying "Khemri are Rubbish" was a bit provocative, I'm sorry about that

Still, besides the fact that they have access to 4 'ok' ST5 Tomb Guardians (who in fact have negative skill: "Decay", but not a negatrait such as "Bonehead"), I really find it difficult to praise any player from Khemri team-list.

1. They are the overall clumsiest team in the game with access only to AG1 & AG2 -players.
2. Their only ball-handling skills are Thro-ra's Sure hands and Pass, with no-one having access to A(gility)-skills
3. They are one of the slowest teams with access only to 4 players with MA6
4. Bliz-ra costs 90k with stats 6 3 2 8, which is the worst among the blitzers in the game
5. Thro-ra costs 70k with stats 6 3 2 7, which is the worst among the throwers in the game
6. Skeletons. Well, they are quite cheap, but compaired to other 40k -linemen of other teams (Hobgoblins in CD-team, Thralls in Vampires-team, Rotters in Nurgle-team and Zombies of Undead and Necromantic), they really don't shine that much.
7. Even though they can have four Tomb Guardians, after the changes from LRB 5, they don't seemto be one of the bashy teams in the game.
8. They pay 70K per team reroll.
9. No access to team apo (ok, everyone in Khemri-team has Regeneration).

And yes, You can ALWAYS win one team with another. I was asking how to do that with equal skill and experience in the game and without unnatural luck throwing dice. Someone told that right positioning is the key. That might be the case when you are playing against less experienced player OR you are the king of positioning, but until someone shows me positive (and even remotely reliable) statistics with more than 200 games played with LRB 6 Khemri, I'm prone to believe that Khemri-team is defenately not tier 1-team.

I don't mean to offend anyone playing Khemri or anything. I'm sort of baffled and disappointed with the huge changes made to what used to be my favourite team and try to find a competitive reason (and a way) to play the team in our ultra-competitive league.

[mattgslater]

Anyone who remembers 1st Edition D&D and Unearthed Arcana remembers the Barbarian. He had way better hit points and natural advantages than any other class; at first level, Barbarians were completely, rabidly broken. If you got good stat rolls, you could pick up a toothpick and knock off pretty much anything your comrades had any business fighting, singly or as a PC party, on your own, in a couple rounds. But you weren't allowed to use magic items or hang out with magic-users until you got to higher level, and your XP progression was just awful. I'm sure they playtested the class in solo Conan-style adventures, but in a 5-man party, he'd give everybody else a terrible inferiority complex. But no matter; by the time everybody else was 5th level and had a bunch of cool magic items, he was languishing at 3rd, had nothing, and was getting knocked out in the first round of every encounter. He had a higher ceiling than the other classes, but by the time it kicked in, the Wizards just owned the world (they inherited it from the Druids -- back in the '80s it was very easy to luv that 11th level @ 200k!), so it was all moot.

Khemri are the Barbarians of Blood Bowl. There's no way to balance 4x ST5 on a ST3 team. It can't be done. You can give them a major handicap (AG2 across the board), but even then you either underdo it or overdo it, because the tolerance for error is very small, and the modifiers you're dealing with are very large. There just isn't a happy balance-point. And when something is hard to balance in a competitive league game, you have to err on the side of nerfing or you get power-creep. The best you can hope for in such a case is a low-average, which is more-or-less where they are.

If you only have one local Khemri coach, and he really sucks, go looking through the House Rules and New Concepts for buffed Khemri, or just go back to Mummies. Or go really far back to before the nerfing, and adopt some of the nerfy concepts. There's no end of attempts that had their merits but were rejected anyway. Whatever you do, make sure you have everybody or almost everybody on board, as this is potentially a can of purple wurms.