Elvish defense

[Smurf]

Doubles on linos and Catchers makes Guard, until you have three Guards (hopefully a Catcher among them). Then you can get cute, taking Catchers with Nerves or Linos with Grab or whatever... or just ignore the doubles and go back to basics. Two Guards (or one and a +ST guy) are awesome on offense. Guard is a fair defensive skill, but on a ST3 LOS it's only enough against Guardless elves. There is such a thing as too much Guard on an elf team; it just takes a whole lot of luck to get there.

Depends on the style of play. I know we love ST2 guards, we can hit them hard.

Catchers with doubles is a tough choice.

Dump off? Not of a great use.
Nerves of Steel - great for pass blocker or being pass blocked.
Juggernaught, this allows to get a one die block for a 5/6 push back!

I've been unlucky and over 13 games have not managed to roll a double for any line, or wardancer. Got doubles for Throwers and a ST increase for a catcher (who has now been killed - not worth it IMO)

I dream of a few line with guard. But having to use dauntless instead. Rematch vs Vampires next week, this may net the results I require... work the line!

BTW guard can be broken, it's not perfect.

[sunnyside]

In the end I wussed out and went with an APO instead of a second re-roll. The first few games should be in the "off season" and don't count for anything aside from getting your team off the ground.

On the dancers. I think I'm not going to bother with strip ball. It's common in enough 100TR teams, but by the time I'm playing 200TR teams it's pretty well universal.

I might do one with frenzy just to keep 'em honest. But what do people think I should do with the other? Tackle and side step?

For purchases how much of a priority is the tree? (Against a predominantly bashy league)

Withing the scope of trying to win games 3-8, would it be advisable to maybe give diving tackle to a linelf on their first skill?

[Drool_bucket]

I might do one with frenzy just to keep 'em honest. But what do people think I should do with the other? Tackle and side step?

IMO, as stated previously (or in another recent WE thread), Frenzy on a WD changes the game on a fundamental level. I can't imagine playing a WE team w/o a Frenzy WD. They have the MV to get them where they need to be, Leap if the opponent puts a "Too Juicy To Ignore" target near the sidelines and the next skill, Sidestep, is what you want them to have anyways, the synergy is just great.

I just started a new WE team in a tabletop league and my first WD skill'd, I took Tackle because my next two opponents have oodles of Dodge, but it was painful to not take Frenzy.

For purchases how much of a priority is the tree? (Against a predominantly bashy league)

I think in 5.0 or the CRP a Tree is more important, only because the Apoth is less useful. Then you add in you're playing a "Bashy" league and I would say go for it. Taking a Treeman before starting your catchers will really help develop those Lineelfs and set the team up for long term success.

Withing the scope of trying to win games 3-8, would it be advisable to maybe give diving tackle to a linelf on their first skill?

Diving Tackle has always been a Catcher skill to me. I feel you need the Dodge/Sidestep combo to start, then Diving Tackle makes for a brutally annoying Marker-style player.

Lineelfs, for me, have always been tackle zones for my opponent to have to get through and to run screens for my Positional players. Bread and Butter skills like Dodge and then Block/Wrestle/Sidestep/Fend come next. The only other role that Lineelfs take are Guarders on doubles, because you usually need the STR against some of the heavier hitters out there.

[Smurf]

On my rebuild my line skills I'm trying to get 3 dauntless players. Just to up set the larger ST teams!

[mattgslater]

Three is two too many. Don't get stuck playing the other guy's game.

[Craigtw]

There is a player in our tournament group who came up with a great elvish defence tactic that has been so widely adopted amongst our circuit that it is now named after him.

The Marc-André Defense




The Marc André defense works on a very passive-aggressive premise. You are not going to be attacking the player directly, but are rather going to allow his cage so little movement, that eventually the player will become desperate and make a play that is going to be either at high risk of a turnover, or will leave the ball carrier more exposed as the whole cage will be unable to accompany him.

When the opponent has formed the cage, move your players so that they are one square away from the front of the cage and two squares between them. You can also put one at each corner on the sides of the cage.

Directly behind this player (i.e. in single file lines) place another player so that even if the first player is knocked down there is going to be another directly behind, this preventing a breakaway.

The opponent will only be allowed one blitz, and will ikely move his players into your tackle zones on his turn. Your reaction should be to dodge out, and reform the defense so that again there is only one space between you and the cage.

This tactic could work for any race, but is especially good for elves because their AG4 makes all the dodging much easier.

You should also always have one "opportunistic" player who sits away from the action ready to receive a pass in case the ball should pop loose.

[mattgslater]

Please make that Play-Creator play public.

I like One-Square-Per-Turn games, at least against grind teams, but I still think it's important to attack the ball at any credible opportunity. Definitely, the formation you're talking about (I call it a "trap screen" as two players are in a screen and one or more of them is protected with a trap formation) is a powerful one, and is one of the major keys of BB.

In that kind of "prevent" OSPT defense, you're essentially betting that your opponent will screw up before you get Nuffled, which is often a good (never safe) bet. Against really heavy opposition, you need to game carefully to keep that one square from being enough in a 6-8-turn drive (i.e., the bread-and-butter of the grind team).

The way to beat the OSPT with a grind team is to develop a QP or KOR game (QP for Orcs, KOR for Undead) and a line-of-scrimmage cage. Try to either cage at the line (if the ball goes shallow) or drop out of blitzing range (if it goes deep), then get it up to the line on turn two. But with a midfield cage, you can support a veer to the left or right, and you can man-mark more guys to force more die-rolls and boost your odds of Nuffling 'im. Covering a midfield cage with an OSPT game is very hard, unless you're loaded on positioning skills. Either the defense has to let you have a wing (and several squares of advancement), or they have to risk getting partitioned on a drive up the center. Good use of Frenzy is also a big deal, because chaining is often the only way to engineer more than 1-2 blocks, and usually requires a blitz (or a bit of luck) to pull off the first time, except on the LOS. Having one or two mobile guys lets you build counterstructures and helps you partition the defense, which is always the key to beating on the fragile.

I like, in a diagonal line-blocking scheme, to open with my "center" against an end and not follow in, unless I'm playing some kind of Grab game. Because he gets a bonus assist from the "tackle" (or whatever you call the guy in the 2-column), he tends to end up free on the LOS in the central column, and is usually in the thick of the action, I like to use a Blitzer or Wight or something there, so he can play carrier.

[Craigtw]

The play is now unlocked....

[mattgslater]

Oh, sure, 11-on-5... but how do you get there?

[sunnyside]

Interesting. Obviolusly the shape show works better if you outnumber them a lot. But you could line up stacks of players like that to lock up the whole width of the field. You'd give up a square per turn most turns. On the other hand it would prevent opposing players from running around behind, which is usually how I crack "one step back" defenses.

It makes me wonder if there isn't something in there for a defense that might be even better than the classic "stack" at stopping the two turn touchdown. You'd arrange as pairs to cover the whole board, except those not in the wide zones would have the front person on the line of scrimmage. Obviously that means a blitz can open up an avenue. But if the players a step back are hard to blitz clear releaibly, for example a combination of side stepping blodgers or stand firm big guys, than you migth actually lock things down.

Even on teams with just plain big guys, they might have to use enough assists that they have few in the backfield.

[Smeborg]

sunnyside - my experience is that against an AG team, a cage will move on average 1.5 squares forward per turn.

A "classic" two-deep defense (gaps of 2 squares between) can work well, especially if you have 10 or 11 players left, plus plenty of Dodge and/or Re-rolls. However this system can be a rare luxury against well-coached bash teams, especially if they have damage skills (M-Blow, Frenzy).

If the AG defense is lacking in numbers and skills (e.g. no Dodge, no Blodge, no Sidestep, such as a rookie HE team), a single defensive line can work well, provided it has only 1 square between players. If near the sideline, this line can be anchored by a player who is signing autographs (= standing next to the sideline). The idea is that any gap created by an opponent by blitzing is too narrow to form a cage near, so he has to either stay where he is, or GFI a ridiculous number of times in order to re-form his cage on the other side of the defensive line. A bonus is that if the blitz produces a both down result, with the defender staying on the pitch, there is no gap in the line without dodging. So the caging player needs a down result to be sure (or must use a Frenzied player).

This idea works fine for non-Ag teams, too, for a short time (1-2 turns).