Where to go with this DE lot?

[El_Jairo]

Double post

[El_Jairo]

Here is my new team roster. After ending third in the first GLL season we capture also the bronze plaque at the Flaming Phoenix tourney and sitting on some cash with question for you how to spend it.

Here they are with the updated roster with new skills since I know my opponents:

N° Position Skills [Development] SPP left to skill
#1: Blitzer: Dodge, Side Step [Diving Tackle, Tackle] 3
#2: Blitzer: Dodge, Tackle [Side Step, Diving Tackle] 7
#3: Blitzer: Dodge, Strip Ball [Dauntless, Wrestle] 8
#4: Blitzer: Dodge, +Ma, Niggle [Tackle, Sprint] 9
#5: Witch Elf: Wrestle, Leap [Side Step, Strip Ball] 6
#6: Witch Elf: Wrestle [Tackle, Side Step] 8
#7: Runner: Leader, Nerves of Steel [Dodge, Safe Throw] 9
[#8: Runner: Wrestle, Pass, Dodge] If necessary to replace the other Runner
#9: Assassin: [Dodge, Side-Step] New Buy
#11: Line Elf: [Dodge, Block, Side Step] 5
#12: Line Elf: Guard, -Ma [Block, Dodge] 3
#13: Line Elf: Dodge, Guard [Block, Side Step] 13
[#14: Line Elf: Side Step, Dodge, Block] 1st
#15: Line Elf: Dodge, -Ag [Wrestle/Fend] 8
#16: Line Elf: Kick, Guard [Block, Dodge] 10

TRR: 2
Fan Factor:9
CL:0 AC:0
Cash: 170k gp
TV: 1.710k

I want to buy a TRR because my play favours risk play. So when I play without a re-roll, I tend to play conservative but find it difficult to make the difference.
Meaning that RR's are so important to my play I was thinking to pick up 1 CL and 1 AC. Do you think this is worth the TV?
Or should I buy my sixth lineman? Or save up for a runner?

I could also use some advice on skill choice, I'm not so convinced of the NoS but maybe I can use the second runner strictly on offensive drives and still get mileage out of the double NoS combo.
What do you think?

Thank you for your wisdom

[dines]

I wouldn't go with strip ball on witches, ss is first priority. I found that strip ball might be nice early in leagues, but later on, most opponents have a sure hands ball carrier.. and on a witch, frenzy leaping into a cage is crazy stuff. Rather give the strip ball blitzer leap followed by tackle, wrestle.

I don't really get your runner, how do you use him? Do you have him as a ballcarrier and use dump off or? Dodge and pass would be highest priority on him.

Your guard linemen needs some love, they get so much better with blodge!

You could try with 1 ac and cl if none of your opponents have them, but it's mostly wasted tv unless your playing halflings or vampire...

I'd go with 13 players in total and 3 rerolls (incl. leader), I feel that more is bloat on an allready expensive team. But again, depends on opponents and how risky you like to play. I'd buy one linman and go with that.

[MKL]

I wouldn't go with strip ball on witches, ss is first priority. I found that strip ball might be nice early in leagues, but later on, most opponents have a sure hands ball carrier.. and on a witch, frenzy leaping into a cage is crazy stuff. Rather give the strip ball blitzer leap followed by tackle, wrestle.
(...)

Hi El_Jairo!

Like Dines, I got the impression you plan too much Strip-Ball for the team.
Orcs and Dwarves have Sure Hands, Woodies and H-Elves play keep-away with their Throwers, etc... you need Tackle to take down caged Runners or Catchers loitering in the backfield.

You got 1 Tackle only and 1 Strip Ball: I think you need at least 3 Tackle, while 1 (or 2 at most) S-Ball is enough, especially on a Leap player. The threat of a leaping S-Ball is enough to restrict the opponents choices.

My 2 c...

[El_Jairo]

I have to agree on the Strip ball routine but the idea of a cage breaker seem tempting but not so much necessary right now.

I also have to agree that my current runner doesn't look good. Frankly I didn't expect him to survive this long. I don't know what type of player I want but I thought giving him Sure Hands for better ball retrieval. My plan is to develop them more as general players: Wrestle, Pass, Dodge. In this way they can play both offensive as defensive.

Update: I now know my opponents for next season.
Opposing teams are:
Pro Elf, last season winner and good coach with typical irritating catchers
Orc, coach with too much luck on upgrade rolls: 2x STR 4 Blitzer, Block on Troll and Goblin and Strong Arm on thrower
Lizardmen, Nothing real special
Skaven, young team with 4 gutter runners joining the league
Necromantic, Nothing real special to note

Calendar looks like this:
First Half: Pro Elf, Orc, Necro, Skaven, Lizards
Second Half: Skaven, Pro Elf, Necro, Lizards, Orcs

So I'm seriously considering to buy an assassin to take care of Pro Elf, Skaven and Lizardmen. but this would mean I drop back to 80k and can't afford the TRR.

Furthermore I have won a prize I can give to one player on my team, the Bronze Laurel:
Once per game a player with the Bronze Laurel can force his opponent to re-roll the dice when making a block or blitz against this player (raise the base cost of the player by 20,000 Gp)

To what player would you give it? Or do you think it is not worth the 20k? My personal preference goes now to my only Tackle Blitzer but I think it can be most efficient on my ball carrier as you can only Re-Roll a dice roll once...

Thank you for your input.

[mattgslater]

Give the special ability ability to your Runner or Kicker. I recommend the Runner, but those are the best choices: the Kicker probably takes a lot of smacking, and the Runner is there to deter shots on the ball.

If you can induce an Assassin against Pro Elves, that's great. Hire one? Meh. It would be nice to have 13 guys, and the Stab is useful against some of your opposition. But sometimes he's 30k dead TV. If you do, he's in place of the #8 Runner, or in my book, an empty spot on the roster. Don't worry about the RR, unless it doesn't feel like enough: 3 is plenty, but some coaches need another one.

What's the Orc team's TV? If they're loaded up on MB and stuff, just having another rookie body out there to take one for the team might be nice. Similarly if they're dodgy and like their Goblins too much. Otherwise, if you can induce an Assassin vs the elves, maybe wait until you get the Necromantics before you actually pay gold for one. Assassins are particularly hazardous to Ghouls, who Blodge-up fast, can't be saved by Apo/Regen, and carry a lot of water while they last. Lizzies and Rats hate them too.

Part of the question: how do you feel about Shadowing? If you know how to use it right, it's good on blocks sometimes. I'm not that hot with Shadowing, I must confess, but I've had Assassins used well against my armor teams before. It's particularly wicked vs Break Tackle, making Dodge a good early investment for Assassins.

[El_Jairo]

Thanx Matt, for the hints but I think I'll sell the special item. It is of HE fabrication anyway and it doesn't seem to be worth 20k TV to me. If I sell it it is worth 20k + d3x 10k.

The Orcs are TV 174 and don't have guard so far but 2x ST4 blitzers, one strip ball and one stand firm. A Tackle, Grab Blitzer and the last one picked MB.
Two block BoB and Block on the Troll and Catch gobo.

I'm thinking to pick the assassin: to give me some advantage on the Blodge players in my league. With only one tackle in my team I'm really screwed and I don't think I can induce him vs the PE. I will use him vs his catchers or simply on the LoS. Maybe Shadowing could work but I'm not counting on that, for me it is a way to get those Blodgers down.
Vs the Goblin it would be great and I hope to annoy some ghouls and maybe some skinks with him.

I'm not confident with putting more AV7 on the team before hitting the Orcs but I really need options vs the PE.

I also played around with some skill progress, mainly put Tackle up in priorities.
But I'm a bit lost on my Strip Ball blitzer: could dauntless pay off to get the upper hand vs St4 blitzer orcs and Sauri and Flesh Golems? Strip Ball would only combine well vs Orc St4 but on the other hand there are plenty S4 target to take care of in my League.
My Mv8 blitzer puzzles me also with his development, I thought Leap to be a nice skill but tackle, SS and shadowing seems a nice combo to vs those evil catchers...
I'm doubting to give Sure Hands on my Runner, Orcs, Pro Elves and I suspect Necro's to have strip ball, so it might pay off than only some ball retrieval.

[mattgslater]

Don't sell that; it's way better than a late-pick skill on the same player, and he's expensive/fragile! Get him Blodge, and a 2d blitz on your carrier is only 121/1296 (<10%) to pow! Even with just one skill, or vs Tackle, it's only 25/81, or about 30% (offhand, no calculator).

I could see an argument for giving it to a Guard player and/or a Blodgestepper/Blockstepper....

[El_Jairo]

You're right, it can be very handy on the runner or maybe my Kick-Guard line-elf. I need him to survive because he has a tendency of MNG'ing more often than other players.

So I put my money on the Kick Guard dude, since I need more help on the defence and Kick can be a very effective way to get the defence started...

Cheers Matt.

I'm playing my game vs Pro Elves tomorrow night, it's a grudge match: last time I gave him the ball and he -MA my only guard lino. This time I'm looking to punish him as much as possible, so I'll keep you guys posted.

[El_Jairo]

Ok, here is how it went:

He induced a halfling chef.
Weather: Blizzard, what was good because he couldn't long pass.

First half: Chef stole 1 RR.
We started receiving and armour breaking went quite well but only achieved 2 KO's and one CAS which was succesfully Apothed.
My biggest error was to score in T7 because I misplaced some pieces in an effort to push his Blitzer out of the pitch.

Result 1-1 at half and he was at 10 men vs my 13.

Second half: Chef stole 1 RR.
He started to bringing the pain on me: turn one BH on my Runner, in hindsight I forgot to use his special ability. Because now I only had 1 TRR left...
He played his Thrower deep while putting his Catchers in scoring position with a screen of linemen in the middle. in the process he KO one more.

I tried a risky blitz on his carriers in turn 3: Leap + 2x GFI (3x 3+ with TRR) last GFI failed and MNG witch as a result.
Bad luck went on and I used my TRR on a double skulls on defence. In hindsight I was already in a beaten position. Not much later he CASed my Dodge, Guard Linemen: -ST RR RIP! Great, I really must find a way to convince the Apoth that he is the only not Killer on the team (named Karhond Khar Killers).

Finally I had put him under enough pressure to make him score in Turn 6. Sadly he received a Blitz on the KO. Resulting in a TD in Turn 7 since I couldn't pick up the ball (no TRR). I had another shot but I forgot how good those catchers are at intercepting. I didn't blitz him out of the way and he intercepted... with the known result.

Result TD:2-3 CAS: 1-4

Luckily we could make the T8 score for 2-3 and resulting in a total of 3 skills:
#1: Blitzer: Dodge, Side Step [Diving Tackle, Tackle] I'm doubting to take Tackle first since I don't see my other positionals moving up fast...
#9: Assassin: Multiple Block [Dodge, Side-Step]
#12: Line Elf: Guard, -Ma Block [Dodge, Side-Step]

In my opinion I made the following mistakes: 1st, starting with receiving, I had 13 players so I could afford some injuries. Better was to kick and give him less KO rolls.
Second mistake: didn't stall enough, 1st half went so good until T6 that I was over confident to have the numbers.
Third mistake: putting my downed men up all the time, this can explain why I took 4 Casualties (but surely 1 from failed GFI). I think I took about 4 blocks a turn which is too much. It can be better to leave people on the ground if the only thing you can win is a 2d Block against with block.
Fourth mistake: don't allow PE catcher a chance on interception. I din't want to blitz with my assassin because I lacked the RR and he the dodge...
Fifth mistake: didn't have a closed enough defensive formation after Kick-off. He could move too easily between my lines. I tried too much to lock his players down by marking them but didn't have much success.

I have a feeling that I don't have the right tactic to mark those Catchers.
I mark them like this: X my player, O his catcher, T my player with tackle, bottom is my endzone.

Code: Select all

X-X
-O-
-T- 

Maybe this is better

Code: Select all

-T-
-O-
X-X

Or this:

Code: Select all

XOX
-T- 

Cheers on any tips on how to defend against PE but my guess is there is no real defence, other than pressuring his Thrower and trying to hurt his linemen as much as possible.

I'm saving up for a special League upgrade:
Terracing 150.000 Gp 1 Unavailable to, High Elves, Wood Elves, Goblins
Before the game, nominate one side of the pitch as the side your home fans are occupying. Every time a player from the
away team is knocked off that side the pitch add +1 to the injury result. In addition you may add +1 to your FAME for
all kick-off table results (but not for winnings).

I assume this only is a home advantage (we played home now) but still this is great because TV doesn't rise but the effect is not to be overlooked, since I have difficulties injuring other teams.

For next game I'm considering inducing a DP linemen. We also can induce one star player at half the cost: I'm thinking Hubris (great vs his S4 blitzers) or Eldril, depending on the points and a Bribe if possible.
Or could Roxanna be a useful addition, since I only have one Witch ready.

I think I will have about 200k Inducements.

Actual Team roster:
N° Position Skills [Development] SPP left to skill
#1: Blitzer: Dodge, Side Step, Diving Tackle [Tackle] 20
#2: Blitzer: Dodge, Tackle [Side Step, Diving Tackle] 7
#3: Blitzer: Dodge, Strip Ball [Dauntless, Wrestle] 8
#4: Blitzer: Dodge, +Ma, Niggle [Tackle, Sprint] 9
#5: Witch Elf: Wrestle, Leap [Side Step, Strip Ball] 4 MNG
#6: Witch Elf: Wrestle [Tackle, Side Step] 8
#7: Runner: Leader, Nerves of Steel [Dodge, Safe Throw] 8 Bronze Laurel (force once/game RR on a block vs him)
[#8: Runner: Wrestle, Pass, Dodge] If necessary to replace the other Runner
#9: Assassin: Multiple-Block [Dodge, Side-Step] 10
#11: Line Elf: [Dodge, Block, Side Step] 5
#12: Line Elf: Guard, -Ma [Block, Dodge] 3
[#13: Line Elf: Dodge, Wrestle, Side Step] 2nd buy
[#14: Line Elf: Side Step, Dodge, Block] 1st buy
#15: Line Elf: Dodge, -Ag [Wrestle/Fend] 8
#16: Line Elf: Kick, Guard [Block, Dodge] 10

TRR: 2
Fan Factor:9
CL:1 AC:1
Cash: 130k gp
TV: 1.640k

Thank you for your input!

[El_Jairo]

Ok, we are 3 games so far in the league and I lost vs the Pro Elves, won vs Orcs and Necro.

My team has taken some damage and looks now like this.
I would like some advise, especially in preventing more damage coming in. I have a CAS DIFF of -19 now and a TD

N° Position Skills [Development] SPP left to skill
#1: Blitzer: Dodge, Side Step, Diving Tackle [Tackle] 17
#2: Blitzer: Dodge, Tackle [Side Step, Diving Tackle] 2
#3: Blitzer: [Dodge, Strip Ball, Dauntless, Wrestle] 6
#4: Blitzer: [Dodge, Tackle, Side Step] 6
#5: Witch Elf: Wrestle, Leap [Side Step, Strip Ball] 4
#6: Witch Elf: Wrestle [Tackle, Side Step] 3
#7: Runner: Leader, Nerves of Steel [Dodge, Safe Throw] 7
[#8: Runner: Wrestle, Pass, Dodge] If necessary to replace the other Runner
#9: Assassin: Multiple Block [Dodge, Side-Step] 10
#11: Line Elf: -AV [Dodge, Block, Side Step] 5
#12: Line Elf: Guard, -Ma, Block, Dodge] 10
[#13: Line Elf: Dodge, Side Step] 2 buy
[#14: Line Elf: Side Step, Dodge, Block] 1st
#15: Line Elf: Dodge, -Ag [Wrestle/Fend] 6
#16: Line Elf: Kick, Guard [Block, Dodge] 10

TRR: 2
Fan Factor:10
CL:1 AC:1
Apoth
Cash: 0k gp
TV: 1.780k

My next game is vs Skaven, giving away about 200k TV. He plays really aggressive with his GR, with Wrestle, Strip Ball and Dauntless.

My strategy will be to cage up and have a receiver for the DO pass. And hope I can hurt some of his players in the process.

[dines]

I'd kick the -AG and -AV linemen, they're not carrying their weight as linemen should be taking the hits and be able to dodge at will. I know that it will delay the blodge, which in turn help you against taking more casualties though.

I've allways had problems facing skaven with darkelves, especially if they have developed killer storm vermin and RO. Then they can beat you and outscore you... But try to target the gutters, if they are gone, so is his winning chances.

[Ullis]

The best way to prevent casualties is not to get hit. Maybe you're spending too much time in opposing TZ's? With elves it's not too hard to end your own turn with no one in contact with the enemy.

In regards of your players, I'd give anyone with Guard Dodge first before Block. That's so you can reposition him easily which is important for elf guarders.

Second, I'd never give Side Step to an elf before he's blodged up. This kinda ties in with avoiding casualties. Blocking an opposing blodge sidestepper is always awkward. Blocking a sidestepping player with no defensive skills is nice.

I don't think I'd fire anyone now. The AG3 lino is prime los material and you don't have any cash to replace anyone. The -AV lino has to go at some point but putting him on the los too might take that decision out of your hands.

[mattgslater]

I like Side Step first in young formats. Like if I play my first game and I get a bunch of skills, and I know my next opponent will be kind of rookish, I might take SS on a Lineman, so I have someone to lock the sideline with.

[El_Jairo]

Cheers for your feedback guys, after all we lost 1-4 because we couldn't roll above 7 on armour. He induced Headsplitter (we can hire 1 star at half cost) AND Merc Rat Ogre.
Result: we went down 1-5 in CAS too (2 crowd surfs, one failed leap and blocking CAS from their Thrower!).

Nuffle really didn't like me that game.

It started out all well with me being able kick and to lock him deep in his back field but than over-committed myself and he made a pass to the midfield. After that I was out of position and he could score 1-0 at half time and we lost Kick, Guard and Tackle Blitzer.
I tried to score back quick but got snake eyes too much and the rats were able to cash in since I didn't have any means to stop all his gutter runners.
Maybe next time it is better to play more conservative and mark his Block NoS GR with Diving Tackle to prevent the counter score.

Anyway the team now looks like this:
N° Position Skills [Development] SPP left to skill
#1: Blitzer: Dodge, Side Step, Diving Tackle [Tackle] 17
MNG #2: Blitzer: Dodge, Tackle [Side Step, Diving Tackle] 2
#3: Blitzer: [Dodge, Strip Ball, Dauntless, Wrestle] 4
MNG #4: Blitzer: [Dodge, Tackle, Side Step] 5
#5: Witch Elf: Wrestle, Leap [Side Step, Strip Ball] 1
#6: Witch Elf: Wrestle [Tackle, Side Step] 3
#7: Runner: Leader, Nerves of Steel [Dodge, Safe Throw] 7
[#8: Runner: Dodge; NoS, ...] If necessary to replace the other Runner
#9: Assassin: Multiple Block [Dodge, Side-Step] 10
#11: Line Elf: -AV [Dodge, Block, Side Step] 5
#12: Line Elf: Guard, -Ma, Block, Dodge] 10
[#13: Line Elf: Dodge, Side Step] 2 buy
[#14: Line Elf: Side Step, Dodge, Block] 1st
#15: Line Elf: Dodge, -Ag [Wrestle/Fend] 6
#16: Line Elf: Kick, Guard [Block, Dodge] 5

TRR: 2
Fan Factor:9
CL:1 AC:1
Apoth
Cash: 20k gp
TV: 1.530k

My next opponent is our Lizardmen with 14 men on his roster but not much SS on his skinks and most Sauri on one skill.
I will be receiving about 370k on inducement and I was looking for some advise on how to spend it.

I was thinking Hubris, as he is halve price at 130k, he brings S4, Block, MB and Strip Ball, all usefull skills.
My next choices are more difficult: do I go the DP route with a Bribe and a Merc LineElf with DP? I might need to give up CL or AC for this.
OR Do I pick up a Merc Blitzer with Tackle and a Bloodwiser Babe, so I get to keep my AC and CL. Which I do think about firing since every TV you give away counts double with stars at half price...
This TV fact makes me think about sacking the -AV lineelf, but I need someone to die on the LoS as I tend to have a lot of incoming CAS.

My preference now goes for the Tackle + BB route because it doesn't rely on luck on the fouling rolls. I only have 12 base players, with inducement this would go up to 14. I can take the Merc DP being send off but Hubris needs to stay on the pitch. Since I lack tackle it is a very good way to put pressure on his Skinks...

Well any C&C appreciated.