A few thoughts on Khemri

[Overhamsteren]

I guess I would go for sure hands, if he rolls a double for dodge then no doubt sure hands next barring +AG/ST.

Only thing against sure hands is that your throw-ra already got MA7 but still MA8 is huge and the best use for it with Khemri is scoring in my opinion.

I wouldn't bother with a 1-turn-TD plan just focus on your defense forcing early scores or shutting them out, it's what khemri is about, right? Defense. (and fouling)

[crimsonsun]

I think you should consider catch with a double, which would make him a serious scoring threat/outlet for your team if your drive becomes bogged down or is heavily stalled, by positioning him away from your main thrust of players but within range of the endzone you will force the opposing coach to pull one or two players away from his defence to mark the blitz-ra which will make your advance easier, or if he fails to do so quickly switch direction and move to hand off, or at worst quick pass (75%chance on both the throw and catch) to the blitz-ra and punish him with a quick score.

Crimsonsun

[Smeborg]

I think you should consider catch with a double, which would make him a serious scoring threat/outlet for your team if your drive becomes bogged down or is heavily stalled, by positioning him away from your main thrust of players but within range of the endzone you will force the opposing coach to pull one or two players away from his defence to mark the blitz-ra which will make your advance easier, or if he fails to do so quickly switch direction and move to hand off, or at worst quick pass (75%chance on both the throw and catch) to the blitz-ra and punish him with a quick score.

Crimsonsun

Excellent idea, helps with the one-turn-score too, lol.

[crimsonsun]

Excellent idea, helps with the one-turn-score too, lol.

I still think a Khemri 1TT is only worth looking at if nuffle is your own personal bitch for the match, If you had MA8, a Grab guardian and a frenzy blitz ra to make the blocks to move your player forward, got a touch back on the kick off and have a re-roll for the ball carrier to blitz a unskilled str 2 player, or having a clear route to the end zone would you have a chance that would be worth losing your LoS blocks & foul which could remove players & give you spp for. Khemri lack all the movement, dodging, and ball handling skills needed for a 1TT. They can do the positional blocks ok, but that is pretty much it.

Crimsonsun

[Smeborg]

I just think it's worth it for the eternal humiliation of the opponent.

All the best.

[crimsonsun]

I just think it's worth it for the eternal humiliation of the opponent.

All the best.

That I cannot argue with!

[crimsonsun]

Hey guys I thought I would pose a question as its something I have bumped into a few times lately and I am not sure on how to overcome it tactically with any great reliability. I have bumped into a few 1500-2500 tv vampire teams lately and to be perfectly honest I am losing far more than I am winning, its all down to hypnotic gaze, not that I think the skill by itself is massively overpowered just Khemri do not have many effective ways of dealing with it.

Whats the issue? Well hypnotic gaze, nullifies a players TZ, and stops them being able to assist, catch or in any way interfere with play until they a activated again, for a team that relies so heavily on the tackle zones of the four Tomb Guardians this is devastating, cages do not protect the ball from sacking, str5 means nothing when then can just waltz on past, guard no longer works this effectively reduces your defence to a bunch of skeletons. Normally I try a double screen, but high agi vampires often with dodge just hypno gaze the vital spots and glide past on 2+ dodge rolls. Skills like Dump off will make it more tricky for the vampires, meaning they have to gaze the ball carrier before hitting but that is not always going to be much of a saving grace for us Khemri as dumping off is not exactly a go to skill for us as its really not going to achieve much.

So what are the weaknesses of this trait, well it has two, though one is not really much of a problem. Its main flaw is that the Ag test to pull it off suffers -1 per tackle zone, so an inner tight formation with screening players could cause them some issues, yet I hate to commit Khemri to one big bunch, your not only vulnerable to chain pushes you also cannot move and could become trapped by BDSS vampires unable to do anything. Its second stipulation is that it can only by used at the end of the Vampires move, this is not really a huge problem for them but can be an inconvenience at times. So this is my issue, now I realise that vampires have there issues, bloodlust is a big flaw. If you can target there thralls and take them out quickly your on to a winner, but that strategy is dependant on two specific luck based actions, namely the taking down of the thralls, and the vampire player failing critical bloodlust rolls, this is not a dependable solution in anyway, attrition will odds on be effective over the 16 turns, but you risk going 3-0 in the first half while trying to gain numerical superiority which is essentially game over for us.

So guys let me know your thoughts, as I am really struggling to find an effective defence against it. I always make the vampires suffer for there actions but I want to increase my win ratio against them as well.

Thanks Crimsonsun

[Hitonagashi]

Don't put the mummies in the front.

Keep a screen of skeletons in front, and have the mummy cage behind it(or the opposite way round). Against gaze, I find it's always best to have 2 layers of cage.

[crimsonsun]

Thanks for chipping in , sadly thats what I ment by double screening, which is the best defence I have thought of, was hoping for some thing else. As that is in my experience not enough on its own, I was hoping to learn something I had not considered.

Any more thoughts?

Thanks crimsonsun

[Hitonagashi]

Look at it this way.

You have 4 mummies with S access and (hopefully) MB at the time the vamps become a problem. You hopefully also have 2 MB/PO Blitz-ra's.

They have lots of av 7 pieces.

It's kinda like asking "hey guys, anyone got any tips on how to play elfball against elves? I'm finding it really hard to pass the ball with Khemri"

At some point, you have to accept that casualties will be a part of your game. Against elves, they aren't necessarily, but if vamps don't lose a player all game, they will win against Khemri. It's pretty much that simple.

[mattgslater]

You might try tighter formations, at least on the sides that the Vamps can easily hit. Instead of trying to hedge 'em out with screens spaced 2 apart, space them one apart. This way, a hypnotized player still has his own square and TZs on both the squares next to them, and they have to block or hypnotize two skeletons to get a zone on the TG. This means either not committing TGs to the offensive line, or if the opponent sets up deep, running your skels downfield to lock in the downed line-Thralls.

Also, straight-up manmarking vamps is better than you'd think, especially early in the drive, so long as you don't actually trust it. I know the template says AG4, but if you have to dodge and avoid Bloodlust, it's really more like AG3 with reduced turnover hazard. Not only that, but if they want to just block your manmarker, they have to game Thralls to do it and will occasionally give you free injury rolls or blow TRRs on pointless blocks.

That said, Vamps totally bedevil me. You're not alone. Stay in one place and fight, dammit! All this dodging and gazing, ugh. Get your frickin' hand in the dirt and grind it out like a man! Or like an undead critter, even.

[Smeborg]

crimsonsun - if it's any consolation, I have had exactly the same problem with Nurgle against developed Vamps (not against rookies). Lost 4-0 once following the proverbial failed pick-up in the end zone (with RR) which would have put me 1-0 up. Same basic issue of heavy tackle zones being neutralised. What I find grinds you down is the need to activate players simply to get their tackle zones back before taking any genuine risks. This means you (a) lose control of the order in which you take actions, and (b) the team seems a bit underpowered over the course of each turn, as you are not able to take more than the one proper risk.

Let us know when you find the holy grail...

[swilhelm73]

IMO, the key to beating Vamps is to control the thralls.

If you can injure them off, or get the Vamps to do it for you, the game becomes much easier.

But you don't have to injure them - you just have to put them where the vampires don't want to go.

Remember, with ag3 and no A access that thralls can't dodge away with abandon like the Vamps can.

So, for example, suppose the direction you want to go in has one thrall and two vamps. Blitz the thrall and leave someone to mark him. If the Vamp coach doesn't get a thrall over there somehow, it is a 1/6 change of losing a vamp and turning over.

Of course in saying this I did get thumped by a Vamp coach in my last game 2-0. In my defense he is one of the top NAF coaches. I was able to use this strategy against him in other games. This time though he left a lvl6 vampire in the middle of the pitch. How could I not keep gang fouling him? (stupid stuns!)

[Lunchab1es]

So a question for all you Khemri coaches,
What is it that has drawn to to play, and keep playing this roster? I'm a Nurgle fan, so I can see some "control" crossover there. I know Chance loves the theme (I enjoy it too), and now with those sweet Willy Mummy's I am actually tempted to invest. So what would you say to a coach considering taking the plunge?

[spubbbba]

Vamps are an odd team, when coached well and their dice are hot they are very tough to beat since not only can they pull off elf style plays but they have the strength to mix it up with bash teams and hypno gaze makes a mockery of almost every defence.

I know back when Khemri had mummies a few coaches took diving tackle as doubles on skeletons and paired them up with a guard mummy.

That does help reduce the manoeuvrability of AG3 players a lot and AG4 dodgers a bit, but does mean giving up guard. Plus as Khemri are no longer the scary bash team and fouling sucks now then DT is not the useful against all comers skills it used to be. It likely still has merit if you are facing a lot of agile and hybrid teams though.