Skill choice for an all ogre team

[Mirascael]

Big Guys dominate the game way too much, if there had been any doubts about that before then ogre and pact teams proved it to be true eventually.

I don't particularly like to see them lose general access, but if they do I hope that Mummies will also lose general skill access. They are big guys without negative penalties - and if no other ST 5 player in the game can get block on a regular roll, I don't think they should be able to, either.

The difference though is that mummies only come with MA 3 which makes them way less dominating. Apart from the 4 mummies that team consists almost entirely of skeletons, furthermore balanced by AG 2 and pathetically low movement for every player. I've once whiped an entire khemri from the pitch but for the mummies, with rookie flings. There is a tremendous difference between khemri having to rely on a careful cageing with mummies to prevent fatal turnovers to a big guy supplement for ordinary teams who randomly cause havoc somewhat detached from the rest of the game.

[Skummy]

The difference though is that mummies only come with MA 3 which makes them way less dominating. Apart from the 4 mummies that team consists almost entirely of skeletons, furthermore balanced by AG 2 and pathetically low movement for every player. I've once whiped an entire khemri from the pitch but for the mummies, with rookie flings. There is a tremendous difference between khemri having to rely on a careful cageing with mummies to prevent fatal turnovers to a big guy supplement for ordinary teams who randomly cause havoc somewhat detached from the rest of the game.

Best comparison - Mummies are trolls with 1 point less movement and no big guy penalties. I personally think this is a great tradeoff. It's true they have a lot of trash players on the roster, but Blitz-ra's are actually fairly decent players and a well coached Khemri team is a terror as is.

[GalakStarscraper]

I don't fear the Khemri team, Skummy .... but let's put it this way ... if in testing it obvious that the Undead, Chaos Dwarves, and Khemri are taking names WAAAAYYY too fast ... than there is no reason that Mummies and Bull Centaurs cannot see their names added to the ST only list.

I'm going to say RIGHT NOW ... I'm not currently in agreement with this. I'm just saying ... I could see this as an option if there was a screaming need for it.

Also ... Mummies don't throw teammates ... so they aren't Trolls with one less movement and no nega-traits.

Galak

[Skummy]

Well, only one team really uses trolls to throw teammates, so I don't think that's really a fair comparison. Even if mummies did have the trait, they wouldn't have a stunty to toss. A well played Khemri team should be very scary to any 7 armor squad, with the possible exception of Amazons. Without any effective way to counter the mummies, you wind up waiting/forcing them to make a mistake with ballhandling while your team dies around you. Not a pleasant experience.

[leblanc13]

In a normal league an ogre team is not a good team.

According to the current rules Ogres on the Ogre team have access to rerolls as they do not have the big guy descriptor on that team list. They also have access to general and strength skill sets right now. I don't know what the plans are for the future, but right now they have both skill groups.

A 70k reroll is expensive. Since your main player is 120k you are not going to be able to afford many. A starting roster (since you are required to start with 11 players) consists of 5 or 6 ogres. Since you are only allowed 6 goblins, you have little flexiblity in a starting roster.

I don't see how this team is overpowered. In every instance I have read about or seen so far, they are a poor performing team. Also, since ogre teams will be scoring mostly by throwing team mates I find that the ogres will only gain spps from injuries caused. This means that they will gain their first skill pretty quickly, but then will take quite a while to get their second skills. Since they gain no points for an accurate ttm pass, they will be praying for MVPs and CASualties to get the SPPs the need to progress.

Bonehead rolls will tend to come up at least once per turn on average with an ogre team and your goblin players will be crushed pretty regularly meaning that you are trying to score with an AG 2 player that boneheads 1 in 6 on average.

When the goblins are off the field your team will be hopelessly outnumbered and susceptible to double or triple-teaming by the opposistion.

I can't believe that in a TR 100 starting league that this team could possibly be overpowering. I can't even imagine them winning a game until some of their ogres started to get block.

Staring with a TR 150 team however is a completely different matter. They will still be hampered with bonehead results, but 11 ST5 guys will beat the snot out of their opposition quite frequently and few will remain to challenge them in the 2nd half of the game.

[leblanc13]

Where did this talk of having ogres and other big guys losing general skill access come from?

Is this something that the BBRC is considering?

It wasn't on the list for the 2003 discussion.

Is this just speculation, fact, or just wishful thinking?

[Steel-Eagle]

It was something Galak posted earlier in this thread as something that was being considered by the BBRC.

[Xtreme]

The ogre team has never been broken at the TR 100 level. But the rosters that allow them to get to big to fast have proven to be the worst. An ogre team that has a skill or two on all the players is a brutal thing. But if they have to roll doubles to get General skills then it is that much harder for them to get surehands, block, and hopefully pro if it becomes a skill again.

[Mad Banker]

Ok guys...
Back on the topic
Having a bit worked on it, I think an all ogre team need more specialized paths of progression than what I had thought of earlier

So, with a maximum of 12 Ogres in the team, I plan to make them progress like this (considering they still have access to general skills and traits):

6 of them as BLOCKERS:

1. Block
2. Guard
3. Multiple Block
4. Tackle
5+ Whatever...

Doubles:
1. Stand Firm
2. Pro

4 of them as BLITZERS:

1. Block
2. Tackle
3. Break Tackle
4. Strip Ball
5. Pass Block
6+ Whatever...

Doubles:
1. Pro
2. Dodge
3. Surefeet

2 of them as RUNNERS:

1. Sure Hands
2. Block
3. Break Tackle
4+ Whatever...

Doubles:
1. Dodge
2. Sure Feet
3. Pro


What do you think?

[DanielLaw]

4 of them as BLITZERS:

1. Block
2. Tackle
3. Break Tackle
4. Strip Ball
5. Pass Block
6+ Whatever...

I think Break Tackle should come earlier - 2nd skill (or possibly 1st on 1 or 2 Blitzers) - to ensure you're sufficiently maneuverable.

gaijin

[leblanc13]

Steel-eagle:

No where in any of Galaks previous posts on this thread did it say that the BBRC was considering this. He just stated that it was being talked about.

There is no need to get upset until you see it in the official documentation.

Speaking of which. Where is LRB 3.0?

Is there an ETA yet? Even a general how's it going so far ETA?

[GalakStarscraper]

hmmmmmmmm ... I would like to go on record that the Ogre team that is currently experimental is broken. Give it enough games under its belt and it steamrolls opponents.

ST only access for Big Guys solves sooooooooooooo many problems.

Example ... in tournaments that give one skill per a game, the Big Guy 95% of the time gets Block.

In league play ... Block and Sure Hands soon make the Big Guy team a large threat.

Anyway ... on topic.

Yes an Ogre team should develop 2 sets of players. LOS guys who aim for Guard and Stand Firm and Block. And cage breakers who aim for Break Tackle and Dodge and Tackle.

Also ... use a doubles roll to grab Pass for the first Ogre that rolls a doubles for his first skill.

Galak

[Mad Banker]

Also ... use a doubles roll to grab Pass for the first Ogre that rolls a doubles for his first skill.

I'm not quite sure that with an AG of 2, I should try any passing game...
Running the ball seems a more obvious option don't you think?

[Xtreme]

I think Galak forgot that you aren't taking any Gobbos. As pass would help with throwing them.

[Mad Banker]

I think Galak forgot that you aren't taking any Gobbos. As pass would help with throwing them.

Of course... with gobbos that would greatly help

Damn, I'm looking forward to my first game with them, scheduled for tomorrow!

The Ogreland All Blacks (that's my team! ) will meet The Snotling Giants...
I think that should be a soft start... if I manage to lay my hands on them