Dauntless on agilityteams.

[Gus]

the first: it doesn't happen all that often that players get ST+, and if it does many people don't use him to cary the ball, but instead use him to hit/defend.

that's because they don't know how to take the best out of their ST increase. a ST4 player is a very good ball carrier.

The second: the thing is, i don't think you need to be close to those BG's, if you are you are doing something wrong. And if they want to blitz with him, fine...get him out of position so you can get to his carrier.

well, maybe you can teach us how you do when facing a Kroxi with Block. do you dodge out of his prehensile tail, or do you wait getting hit each turn ?
how do you manage to stay out of the way of the BG when he is leading the cage ?

Again, i am not saying it isn't useful, i am just saying there are better choices around. Things that you can use against every team/every player.

all i'm saying is that there's almost no team against who dauntless is useless. and against some teams (played by decent opponents) an advantage in ST will lead to your doom, unless you can counter that. with Dauntless.

[Cooper]

the first: it doesn't happen all that often that players get ST+, and if it does many people don't use him to cary the ball, but instead use him to hit/defend.

that's because they don't know how to take the best out of their ST increase. a ST4 player is a very good ball carrier..

Perhaps, but some of them did win even not so local tournaments.

The second: the thing is, i don't think you need to be close to those BG's, if you are you are doing something wrong. And if they want to blitz with him, fine...get him out of position so you can get to his carrier.

well, maybe you can teach us how you do when facing a Kroxi with Block. do you dodge out of his prehensile tail, or do you wait getting hit each turn ?
how do you manage to stay out of the way of the BG when he is leading the cage ?

Again, i am not saying it isn't useful, i am just saying there are better choices around. Things that you can use against every team/every player.

all i'm saying is that there's almost no team against who dauntless is useless. and against some teams (played by decent opponents) an advantage in ST will lead to your doom, unless you can counter that. with Dauntless.

Against a kroxi with Block? you want to win? Take mightyblow as double, and some tackle combined. take out the little guys, and you will win. no need to go for the Kroxi.

Big guy leading the cage? Leap in? hit the carrier with stripball, pick up, score.

Ofcourse i know it ain't that simple, and if you have dauntless at that point it would make life easier, but there are still options open if you don't have dauntless, and it can enhance the rest of your game against other kind of teams.

W

[Cooper]

the first: it doesn't happen all that often that players get ST+, and if it does many people don't use him to cary the ball, but instead use him to hit/defend.

that's because they don't know how to take the best out of their ST increase. a ST4 player is a very good ball carrier..

Perhaps, but some of them did win even not so local tournaments.

The second: the thing is, i don't think you need to be close to those BG's, if you are you are doing something wrong. And if they want to blitz with him, fine...get him out of position so you can get to his carrier.

well, maybe you can teach us how you do when facing a Kroxi with Block. do you dodge out of his prehensile tail, or do you wait getting hit each turn ?
how do you manage to stay out of the way of the BG when he is leading the cage ?

Again, i am not saying it isn't useful, i am just saying there are better choices around. Things that you can use against every team/every player.

all i'm saying is that there's almost no team against who dauntless is useless. and against some teams (played by decent opponents) an advantage in ST will lead to your doom, unless you can counter that. with Dauntless.

Against a kroxi with Block? you want to win? Take mightyblow as double, and some tackle combined. take out the little guys, and you will win. no need to go for the Kroxi.

Big guy leading the cage? Leap in? hit the carrier with stripball, pick up, score.

Ofcourse i know it ain't that simple, and if you have dauntless at that point it would make life easier, but there are still options open if you don't have dauntless, and another choice can enhance the rest of your game against other kind of teams.

W

[Orin]

Against a kroxi with Block? you want to win? Take mightyblow as double, and some tackle combined. take out the little guys, and you will win. no need to go for the Kroxi.

The problem is the Kroxi will be going for you, so you will have to deal with him one way or the other. By taking out the skinks you will probably win (although taking out all the Sauri works as well, I found out to my shame ) but it might turn out to be a Phyrric victory if you don't have a healthy way to keep those 1000 pounds of Kroxi Muscle busy.


edit: cleaned up syntax and added italics

[JJB]

Even if you rarely use the dauntless player as such, his mere presence does force an opponent with several st4+ players to rethink his strategy. Without dauntless, on the other hand, he'll just laugh at your face...

[Gus]

going for the skinks works well. except when the sauri and kroxi go at you and tear you apart before you even have a chance of doing any damage. leaping in a cage ? so you don't think dauntless is useful, and you prefer relying on a 3+ leap and on a 2D oppo's choice ?

well, you must realize yourself something's wrong here.

[Cooper]

going for the skinks works well. except when the sauri and kroxi go at you and tear you apart before you even have a chance of doing any damage. leaping in a cage ? so you don't think dauntless is useful, and you prefer relying on a 3+ leap and on a 2D oppo's choice ?

well, you must realize yourself something's wrong here.

3+ leap with reroll is quite a good chance actually.

2d opponents choice? against skinks? i think you can manufacture a 1d-block against most st3 players. with stripball and tackle, you will have quite a chance that he will go down.

Their bigguys might do some damage, but if it ain't going to bad, they will do only 1 Blitz per turn.

And a dauntless player doesn't help much against that, since there is only a very small chance that you will break his high armour and get him out for good....
W

[Dave]

foul ??

[TuernRedvenom]

Dauntless is not an essential skill. It's a bit like having a dirty player, sure you can win without it. But it is easier if you do have one. Strip ball will only get you so far.
Funny thing is you mentioning tackle. Tackle is a useless skill against many (mostly bashy) teams. But has a huge impact on the game against certain teams. The same goes for dauntless.
And never underestimate the effect of just having a dauntless player on the pitch (preferably combined with a dirty player). It will make your opponent think twice about his positional play.

[Gus]

3+ leap with reroll is quite a good chance actually.

it will fail once in 9 tries. combined with the other stuff you might be doing, like extreme dodging with elves (to flee from the prehensile tail kroxigor or something).

2d opponents choice? against skinks? i think you can manufacture a 1d-block against most st3 players. with stripball and tackle, you will have quite a chance that he will go down.

with sauri with Guard at the corners of the cage, you will get 2D oppo's choice, yes.

Their bigguys might do some damage, but if it ain't going to bad, they will do only 1 Blitz per turn.

and when they don't blitz, they will stick your players, and you'll have to make dodges (thus taking risks, even with AG4)

And a dauntless player doesn't help much against that, since there is only a very small chance that you will break his high armour and get him out for good....
W

it helps because your opponent cannot rely on that "unmovable pillar".

[Asperon Thorn]

I only skimmed the thread, but did anyone mention the psychological effect of having Dauntless on your high AG team?

Your opponent knowing that you can hit his str 5 player is more likely to change his regular game then actually hitting him. Several Dauntless players on your team extends it further. (Even on Linelves which I saw was scoffed at earlier.) Suddenly your "Soft" elven team can give as good as it gets and can, more often then not, get better assists because of their agility.

As a long time Dark Elf player I have almost completely given up on the Dodge away every turn type game as well. (To address the earlier "Elves shouldn't end next to other players") I have found that playing my elves in a bashy teams face does a lot more for winning then trying to survive. Oddly my survival rate has increased as well.

But after all that I prefer guard on doubles for the most part. But 2 or 3 blitzers with Dauntless can really help your team out.

[martynq]

Just to comment that after my game yesterday my dark elves have successfully qualified for the end-of-season playoffs and I rolled a double on a line-elf who already had Block. Given I've already got two Guards, it was definitely time to take Dauntless. The next match is against orcs and in the play-off semis, I'll either meet undead (w/ST4 ghoul), wood elves, lizzies or orcs, so there is a good chance this choice will be very useful.

The team is now as follows:

#1: Blitzer (new)
#2: Blitzer (25spps): Dodge, Side Step
#3: Blitzer (26spps): Tackle, Dodge
#5: Line-elf (26spps): Kick, Dodge
#6: Line-elf (16spps): Block, Dauntless
#7: Line-elf (35spps): Guard, ST+1, Block
#8: Line-elf (14spps): Block
#9: Line-elf (19spps): Block, Dodge
#10: Line-elf (4spps)
#11: Line-elf (20spps): Guard, Block
#12: Line-elf (10spps): Block, niggled
#13: Line-elf (1spp)

I also note to back up Asperon's comments, that this team is successfully out-hitting my opponents. Having lots of Block means I don't have to dodge away all the time, but can hit players who finish their turn in one of my TZs - more hitting means more CAS!

Martyn

[Kundschafter]

Can someone explain to me why everyone allways offers and chooses Dauntless for a double on Elf-like teams? (lets take WE as example)

It´s cause I love to see ogres or blackorks sinking on they´re knees after got bashed by my St 2 Gutterrunner. After that, the opponent often gets insecured and changes his playing style.
(When I don´t hurt you, please do not hurt me!)

[kithor2002]

I can't remember that a Orc coach or another bashy coach did say that to a skaven coach among my league or at a tourney

[kithor2002]

I can't remember that a Orc coach or another bashy coach did say that to a skaven coach among my league or at a tourney