Norse and Amazon

[Sputnik]

Why is tackle so unpopular??

Too many skinks, wardancers, blodge elves and orc blitzers...there were so many reasons for some coaches in the league I play that most of them took tackle as their first skill (for some lineman ).

Sputnik

[Dragoonkin]

No-one here takes Tackle. I think besides the Dwarfs there's about 4 Tacklers in the entire League. It's great.

[Acerak]

I think some coaches would be better served giving Tackle to 1-2 players in lieu of Block as a first skill. It's analogous to the BTackle/Block discussion for Saurus.

-Chet

[Pink Horror]

Yes, there's a big advantage to having a couple safeties with tackle against most teams, and any lineman can become one with just one skill roll.

Then there are some leagues that don't need tackle. In the league I recently started there are only 2 players with dodge - my 2 goblins. I doubt anyone will take the skill until the possibility of using it improves. An undead coach could join, and I'm expecting to eventually see an elf team, so we'll get there.



Pink Horror

[Thadrin]

Difference between dwarfs and amazons:

Dwarfs get rerolls at 40k because they're highly disciplined and all that, plus the linemen have a base cost of 70k, and the team as a whole has rubbish agility. Even at 40k a starting dwarf team will get maximum 3 rerolls.

Amazons get 50k base linewomen, seem a little wilder in the background, and have the standard level of agility. I would be surprised to encounter an Amazon team with less than three or even four rerolls to start.

Makes me think that overall Amazon rerolls should go up. On the other hand you could argue for greater player turnover on teams that aren't dwarves etc....not that I saw that the one time I played against Amazons (see my Tulips report, 4th game vs Spyke.)

Obviously though I'm biased on this issue, and my views would be torn apart by a decent lawyer. Maybe....

[Vesticle]

Why is tackle so unpopular??

Sputnik

Because it's a very specific counter-skill. It's kind of an all-or-nothing, and for many coaches, the rewards of it aren't enough to justify the risk of having a skill that will have very little use in the game. Depending on what team you play, it could be very useful (Amazons), or totally worthless (Dwarves).

Also to note: If you only have one, it just makes that player avoided or targetted. If you put his TZ on a dodger, he can get blocked off with an assist the next turn (particularly if he doesn't have dodge and/or block himself already). If you don't, it's easier for your opponent to avoid that path. Also, if you're using your TZ to try to take down a dodger with a block/blitz, if you give it to a lineman as his first skill, it increases the chance that you'll knock your opponent down by 1/6th. But you still have a 1/3rd chance of causing a turnover (1 dice block, the situation is a simple one for clarity). But on the other hand, if your lineman took block, he'd only have a 1/6th chance of causing a turnover, *and* you've kinda increased your chance to knock your opponent down by 1/6th (double-down knocks him down cleanly now, while before it knocked him down, but caused a turnover, so it wasn't all that useful.)

But the biggest reason is probably consistancy - most coaches would rather take block which is always useful, over taking tackle which may either be very useful, or not useful at all.

[Vesticle]

...they're highly disciplined and all that.

I always thought of Dwarves as being thick-skulled and short-fused...

[Longshot]

Tackle is popular here!

It is a usefull defensive skill.

[Kamikaze Rudy]

They(amazons) enjoyed some success in our league and were the favorites to win the Blood Bowl until the last game of the regular season when the Dark Elves killed both of their Sure Hands thowers.

My only complaint about the Amazons is the fact that the blitzers have access to strength skills. No elf blitzers have access to these and a couple of women, who already start with Blodge do?

My thoughts are that if you changed their access to agility instead of strength, it would balnace out the team a little more. The Amazons shouldn't be about causing damage, they should be about avoiding it...hence the dodge skill!

[Dragoonkin]

I don't consider S3 AV7 to be much about "causing damage".

[Zombie]

I think both teams are fine, and norse are maybe even stronger than amazons. Think about it: in a developped team, you'd have the following players on the field: 2 throwers, 2 catchers, 4 blitzers and 3 linemen/linewomen.

Let's compare each category:

Thrower - slight advantage for the amazons
Catcher - exactly identical since the amazon will certainly take block as her first skill, and the norse will undoubtedly take dodge
Blitzer - huge advantage for the norse: block frenzy jump up pilling on after one skill is way better then block dodge guard
Lineman/linewoman - huge advantage for the amazons

Considering that the throwers don't have a big advantage either way, and that the advantage the 4 norse blitzers have more than compensate for the advantage the 3 linemen have, i'd say the two teams are pretty equal.

Compared to other teams, they're not really overpowered either. No access to a big guy really hurts, as does having the same (very average) stats all around.

The only thing i'd change if i were in charge is to make the amazon rerolls 60k like the norse. Amazons are too cheap at the moment.

[gallowin]

"The only thing i'd change if i were in charge is to make the amazon rerolls 60k like the norse. Amazons are too cheap at the moment."

Too cheap? What's the difference between block & dodge?

Block: works on off & def block actions and never lost a player because of that skill
Dodge: only works on def block actions, seen plenty of players boff both dodge rolls, trip and casualty themselves. Also tackle negates dodge.

Amazons: No star players, No big guys, overpriced Block skill for Blitzer
Norse: No star players, 2 choices for big guys, Blitzer starting with a trait they could never get

If you're going to compare teams, why are elf re-rolls so cheap at 50K? Like AG4 teams need re-rolls. Why are Chaos so expensive at 70K?

[Kamikaze Rudy]

I don't consider S3 AV7 to be much about "causing damage".

It can be just as much as any other, but when you give that S3 AV7 access to skills like Mighty Blow & Guard along with already coming with Blodge, you are creating a player that will be a force in any league. BTW, Our Amazon team led the league in casualties and the player with the most SPP's was an Amazon blitzer. Even more SPP's than the one turn scoring Wood Elf catcher with 3ST and Leap.

And every team was represented. We ran a "Wodell style" league last year.

[Sputnik]

Interesting. I had a look at the casualty stats of our league teams yesterday and here also amazons are in the lead with roughly 4 cas caused per game. But Orcs are coming close to that...

Has anyone else had such an experience with amazons and cas??


Sputnik

[Zy-Nox]

Yeh I've seen them cause lots of casualties, I think mine have 14 at the moment but 8 have gone to just one Blitzer,I they've played 7 games so thats 2 per game, pretty respectable i think